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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by volunteer View Post
    The tone of this letter is sickening. It's one thing for ignorant fans to blame the skaters for decisions which are made by the officials. But to put out that propaganda in an official ISU document? It should read repeated incorrect scoring of the interruptions by the officials.
    With all the politicking that goes on in figure skating, it's no wonder that fans are inclined to believe that there is something besides the search for fairness in figure skating judging behind this. I have a sinking feeling that this season is going to be just nasty.
    THIS.
    Who came up with this rule and put it into effect? Who oversaw its application? And how is any misuse of the rule on the part of the skaters even apparent let alone obvious? The ISU officials who composed this communication and decided it was appropriate are completely unprofessional and just plain cowardly.

    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Yes, I think that is fair, but P&C might not have even tried to skate if they had not had the rule in mind for what to do if they could not finish.

    Absolutely, I agree that all the skaters USED the rule; its language is not their fault, and no misapplication of the rule was done.
    To echo what cherub said, this is merely speculation. None of us could possibly know if P&C skated with the intention of stopping, and i see no reason to assume that they would. I just think it is unfair to question their integrity like that. imo, all skaters deserve the benefit of the doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Papadakis said after the incident that she had not known the rule could be used like that. She tried to skate because it was the climax of their season, and stopped because the pain in her ankle was proving too much, and was intending at that point to withdraw. They only decided to try to continue because the referee told them they were allowed to have the 3 minute break. They were not pre-planning to abuse the rule as you are implying.

    The problem lies here with the way the officials were interpreting the rules.
    And THIS

    Also, Shayii, i feel the same way. First it was fans and skaters like Jenny Kirk making uninformed, ignorant comments and now the ISU does this. Sad.
    Last edited by Bournekraatzfan; 07-09-2013 at 05:38 AM.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    What have V/M - especially Tessa - done to deserve this hate? I don't get it.
    They've done nothing. But by being by far the best and most dominant ice dance team in the world for a number of years now, jealousy, nationalism & politicking has raised its ugly head. When you're at the top many want to knock you down rather than admire your success.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    THIS.
    Who came up with this rule and put it into effect? Who oversaw its application? And how is any misuse of the rule on the part of the skaters even apparent let alone obvious? The ISU officials who composed this communication and decided it was appropriate are completely unprofessional and just plain cowardly.



    To echo what cherub said, this is merely speculation. None of us could possibly know if P&C skated with the intention of stopping, and i see no reason to assume that they would. I just think it is unfair to question their integrity like that. imo, all skaters deserve the benefit of the doubt



    And THIS

    Also, Shayii, i feel the same way. First it was fans and skaters like Jenny Kirk making uninformed, ignorant comments and now the ISU does this. Sad.
    What did Jenny Kirk say?

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    What did Jenny Kirk say?
    IIRC, it was in a podcast where she and her partner spoke about the V/M stoppage.
    Here is the youtube link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8XqFVIc#at=528

    Fast forward to about the 6 minute mark where they are comparing the newfoundconnection of D/W versus what Tessa & Scott show us. There are little snide remarks that if were said about anyone else, there would be an uproar.

    For instance, when talking about the connection Tessa & Scott have, mention is made along the lines of "I don't know what they do in their private lives but they look like a couple who have an on-again, off-again relationship"
    Hmmm been reading the kool-aid methinks?

    Then at about the 8:40 mark, Jenny goes on to bring up the "stoppage" in Carmen. They both weigh in on the topic and again it's more innuendo than stating your opinion.

    Truthfully, I don't bother listening to them any more. Not after this "discussion".
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post

    For instance, when talking about the connection Tessa & Scott have, mention is made along the lines of "I don't know what they do in their private lives but they look like a couple who have an on-again, off-again relationship"
    Er, isn't that what Carmen was anyway? It was a pull and push relationship so duh.

    Wait. I just watched that. I do not think he means "on and off" in a negative sense. It's more like there is such a palpable sexual tension when they perform, typical of an on-again-off-again relationship. He is, in fact, praising that connection, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Golightly; 07-09-2013 at 06:32 PM.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    IIRC, it was in a podcast where she and her partner spoke about the V/M stoppage.
    Here is the youtube link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8XqFVIc#at=528

    Fast forward to about the 6 minute mark where they are comparing the newfoundconnection of D/W versus what Tessa & Scott show us. There are little snide remarks that if were said about anyone else, there would be an uproar.

    For instance, when talking about the connection Tessa & Scott have, mention is made along the lines of "I don't know what they do in their private lives but they look like a couple who have an on-again, off-again relationship"
    Hmmm been reading the kool-aid methinks?

    Then at about the 8:40 mark, Jenny goes on to bring up the "stoppage" in Carmen. They both weigh in on the topic and again it's more innuendo than stating your opinion.

    Truthfully, I don't bother listening to them any more. Not after this "discussion".
    Oh. Now I remember. They were so rude and disrespectful

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    What have V/M - especially Tessa - done to deserve this hate? I don't get it.
    Possibly because they're Canadian? After following the figure skating threads for many years, I've noticed a small but persistent group of posters who deride Canadian skaters at every opportunity. Like the nonsensical poster who repeats ad nauseum that Skate Canada is corrupt. It's gone on for years because few get called on it.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    Possibly because they're Canadian? After following the figure skating threads for many years, I've noticed a small but persistent group of posters who deride Canadian skaters at every opportunity. Like the nonsensical poster who repeats ad nauseum that Skate Canada is corrupt. It's gone on for years because few get called on it.
    You've noticed that too, hey?
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    Possibly because they're Canadian? After following the figure skating threads for many years, I've noticed a small but persistent group of posters who deride Canadian skaters at every opportunity. Like the nonsensical poster who repeats ad nauseum that Skate Canada is corrupt. It's gone on for years because few get called on it.
    I can understand why they hate SC but the hate all Canadian skaters? Thats screwed up.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    IIRC, it was in a podcast where she and her partner spoke about the V/M stoppage.
    Here is the youtube link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8XqFVIc#at=528

    Fast forward to about the 6 minute mark where they are comparing the newfoundconnection of D/W versus what Tessa & Scott show us. There are little snide remarks that if were said about anyone else, there would be an uproar.

    For instance, when talking about the connection Tessa & Scott have, mention is made along the lines of "I don't know what they do in their private lives but they look like a couple who have an on-again, off-again relationship"
    Hmmm been reading the kool-aid methinks?

    Then at about the 8:40 mark, Jenny goes on to bring up the "stoppage" in Carmen. They both weigh in on the topic and again it's more innuendo than stating your opinion.

    Truthfully, I don't bother listening to them any more. Not after this "discussion".

    I had not seen this video yet, but I think the way they spoke of what happened was quite unnecessary... They looked more like gossip commentators who speak a disrespectful way, and that my mother sometimes watches, not people talking about a sport.

    I really think ISU should look at their own shortcomings in a more cautious and recognize the need to take care of their internal problems, rather than trying to pass their mistakes or misunderstandings to others making statements like those made.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lety View Post
    I had not seen this video yet, but I think the way they spoke of what happened was quite unnecessary... They looked more like gossip commentators who speak a disrespectful way, and that my mother sometimes watches, not people talking about a sport.

    I really think ISU should look at their own shortcomings in a more cautious and recognize the need to take care of their internal problems, rather than trying to pass their mistakes or misunderstandings to others making statements like those made.
    Yeah the way they addressed it was very unprofessional.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lety View Post
    I had not seen this video yet, but I think the way they spoke of what happened was quite unnecessary... They looked more like gossip commentators who speak a disrespectful way, and that my mother sometimes watches, not people talking about a sport.

    I really think ISU should look at their own shortcomings in a more cautious and recognize the need to take care of their internal problems, rather than trying to pass their mistakes or misunderstandings to others making statements like those made.
    RE: the bolded part.

    Ding ding ding! We have a winner. For all that these two attempt to be professional in their interviews -- and to be honest I thought they had been doing a pretty good job til that point -- it just comes across as gossipy. It's more the tone of what was said -- and unsaid.
    Crazy about sports!

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    Possibly because they're Canadian? After following the figure skating threads for many years, I've noticed a small but persistent group of posters who deride Canadian skaters at every opportunity. Like the nonsensical poster who repeats ad nauseum that Skate Canada is corrupt. It's gone on for years because few get called on it.
    more than a small minority have been on and off this bandwagon, especially after salt lake. seems ridiculous to consider v/m in this context however, considering how talented they are. i do often wonder why chan gets the "chanflation" and v/m don't, when they are as much on "another level" in terms of ss as chan among the male skaters, and certainly more consistent.

    i dislike the patriotism aspect of competitive figure skating; in major dance companies you would rarely seen an audience clamoring for an individual's success based on nationality, over performance ability and skills.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    Possibly because they're Canadian? After following the figure skating threads for many years, I've noticed a small but persistent group of posters who deride Canadian skaters at every opportunity. Like the nonsensical poster who repeats ad nauseum that Skate Canada is corrupt. It's gone on for years because few get called on it.
    I can't be only because Tessa and Scott are Canadian. B&K and D&L of course were Canadian but while some fans found B&K overrated there were just as many (if not more) who vehemently defended them. Even the American press lacking any dance team of their own to promote took up the cause of B&K. And D&L while not as popular as B&K were, were given their due and none of their placements were questioned.

    I'm really taken aback (although I shouldn't be by now) with how V&M have been treated this entire quad thus far. I've never seen a team who skates at the level Tessa and Scott do subjected to the constant negativity they have been. That includes ridiculous speculation and made up stories about their personal lives. I lost a great deal of respect for Jenny Kirk after that podcast. Heck, perhaps I should offer to be interviewed about the icedance competition as I have just as much "knowledge" as Jenny's partner in that interview (been an icedance fan for almost 30 years). Actually if we are pushing it that far I can name a few posters here on FSU who are far more knowledeable than both Jenny and her partner who IMO is nothing more than a fan with a blog. Jenny should have known better and ITA if that conversation was about any team other than V&M it would have cause a huge blow up.

  15. #155
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    From Genereux's twitter! http://twitter.com/JMGenereux/status...204096/photo/1 I wonder which program he's working on with them? Short or free?

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotation View Post
    From Genereux's twitter! http://twitter.com/JMGenereux/status...204096/photo/1 I wonder which program he's working on with them? Short or free?
    I think the short since he's known for ballroom dancing and that's what the SD is supposed to be about.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lety View Post
    I had not seen this video yet, but I think the way they spoke of what happened was quite unnecessary... They looked more like gossip commentators who speak a disrespectful way, and that my mother sometimes watches, not people talking about a sport.

    I really think ISU should look at their own shortcomings in a more cautious and recognize the need to take care of their internal problems, rather than trying to pass their mistakes or misunderstandings to others making statements like those made.
    Great post and welcome to the boards
    That is exactly what bothered me about it. Jenny says the stop was "suspect" (what was so suspect about it?) and passes Tessa's condition off as the normal physiological responses a figure skater experiences during a program. She should have waited to learn the reason for the stoppage rather than assume and tell others that it was basically just a break due to fatigue. I expected more from her. And her sidekick is just ridiculous!

    Quote Originally Posted by aliona22 View Post
    more than a small minority have been on and off this bandwagon, especially after salt lake. seems ridiculous to consider v/m in this context however, considering how talented they are. i do often wonder why chan gets the "chanflation" and v/m don't, when they are as much on "another level" in terms of ss as chan among the male skaters, and certainly more consistent.

    i dislike the patriotism aspect of competitive figure skating; in major dance companies you would rarely seen an audience clamoring for an individual's success based on nationality, over performance ability and skills.
    I have to agree. Admittedly, i have been reluctant to see this because i have loved D&W since their first year in seniors and i really do enjoy rooting for both teams. But if i am being honest, V&M are far superior in terms of their skating skills (with P&B being closest to them in rhis respect, imo), yet they sometimes lose this category of the PCS to D&W. I could understand that more if D&W had more complex programs but the opposite is true (V&M better demonstrate "multidirectional skating" with several seamless changes of direction, and they have wider variety and greater complexity in their transitions). When i look at the compression and extension of the knees, the use of the edge (frequency of use, depth of edge, and edge control) and the amplitude of the patterns, there is a big difference between the two teams. This is apparent in how the two teams use momentum in the program. D&W maintain incredible speed throughout by using their exceptionally quick feet to take crossovers and Meryl sometimes use her toe picks to do the same. V&M vary their speed and suspend their momentum and then rebuild it instantaneously by using the compression and extension of their knees. Also, D&W tend to assist their edges more with their body weight (ie. they shift their bodies to the right for a right outside edge) whereas V&M have greater ankle flexion that allows their upper bodies better range and steadiness.

    I promise this is not an insult to D&W or any other team as they are all incredibly talented. I just think that V&M, like others have said, are a once-in-a-generation kind of team.

    Also, thanks for the info, Rotation, and welcome to the boards!

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    I can't be only because Tessa and Scott are Canadian. B&K and D&L of course were Canadian but while some fans found B&K overrated there were just as many (if not more) who vehemently defended them. Even the American press lacking any dance team of their own to promote took up the cause of B&K. And D&L while not as popular as B&K were, were given their due and none of their placements were questioned.

    I'm really taken aback (although I shouldn't be by now) with how V&M have been treated this entire quad thus far. I've never seen a team who skates at the level Tessa and Scott do subjected to the constant negativity they have been. That includes ridiculous speculation and made up stories about their personal lives. I lost a great deal of respect for Jenny Kirk after that podcast. Heck, perhaps I should offer to be interviewed about the icedance competition as I have just as much "knowledge" as Jenny's partner in that interview (been an icedance fan for almost 30 years). Actually if we are pushing it that far I can name a few posters here on FSU who are far more knowledeable than both Jenny and her partner who IMO is nothing more than a fan with a blog. Jenny should have known better and ITA if that conversation was about any team other than V&M it would have cause a huge blow up.
    I think jealousy from peers/non-fans has always been a factor for V/M, but it really is ridiculous how obvious it has been this quad. It's terrible how V/M, who are a once-in-a-generation team, continue to experience this. I do wonder if others like the greats and skating experts (who recognize how brilliant V/M are) have also felt the negative treatment of V/M this quad. Didn't Zhulin say something after Worlds iirc?

  19. #159
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    The skaters (besides Davis and White) all say that Virtue and Moir are the best or that they wish they could skate like Tessa and Scott. The only confused ones seem to be the judges and Marina...

  20. #160
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    I honestly believe some of Marina's apparent disinterest in Tess and Scott can be attributed to the fact that they are definite about retiring after this year. She has another team , D/W, who have not said they are retiring, and are potentially WCh's for a couple more years. I would think, financially, this is where the bottom line comes for her. But that's pure speculation on my part and definitely quite a cynical opinion!

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