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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    I know that Kurt landed the first ratified quadruple but it was actually Stojko IMO who opened the era of quads and the judges were so impressed with his athleticism and consistency on the hard jumps that there was no way for other skaters - I'm referring to the Russian champions - to beat Elvis other than try to outjump him. Was there any skater in the Yagudin/Plushenko era who could do multiple quads with complex choreographies and superior presentation and he wasn't properly rewarded by the judges? I honestly don't remember any. That some of the current skaters can do the hard jumps and also incorporate intricate movement might be the natural progression of the sport but these skaters can rarely deliver clean programs.

    I'm thinking that if the judging system hadn't changed in 2004, what we would see now is the kind of programs Proustable was dreaming of for Patrick - five quads and quad-quad combinations in one program - but I suspect with little room left in for choreo.

    Just trying to imagine sometimes what competitive skating will look like twenty or thirty years from now. I guess Patrick is one of the lucky ones because he has those divine skating skills that never get old. He epitomizes figure skating.

    Just rewatched his Elegy from TEB and felt I didn't appreciate this program enough last season. It's exquisite and hard to beat in elegance and refinement.

    Hopefully he'll also get to skate his new ex cleanly by Nationals, it really has brilliant choreo. Here is his practice with a funny moment with Scott.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiYSNAjF7UA

    ETA. Wasn't the 3Lz Kurt's nemesis jump?
    I agree about Elvis, although Kurt is my all time favorite male skater, with PC in second!!! love the video.

  2. #482
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    Kurt was my all time fave but this boy Patrick is something special

  3. #483

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    Kurt's fall on the 3z in his 93 Canadians perf of Casablanca is so indelible in my mind. His fall fit *perfectly* with the music!

    The COP/6.0 debate is sometimes interesting but I generally find that the truly dominant skaters in whatever era they were in would've excelled in a different era--even someone truly maligned like Beatrix Schuba or Elvis (who himself probably underestimates how well he would've done under the new system--his skills would've made him do quads in the second half but unlike someone like Aaron, Elvis always had the confidence to actually do them). Patrick would've achieved in the old system what he is achieving now.

  4. #484

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass
    Browning wasn't any slouch technically though - triple axle-triple toe in both short and long, which hardly any of the men seem capable of now, and in 1991 three triple-triple combinations. I think if anyone else had been doing quads at the time, he'd have upped his game.
    I think Kurt was technically strong during his time. He had (still have) very good skating skills. He would prove a formidable competitor in the current COP era.

    I read recently that one of the things Patrick and Kathy Johnson were working on in the off-season was maintaining his balance. That could be why he's had four clean performances this fall.
    I think the off-ice training in balance has helped Patrick a lot in his jumps. Many commentators took notes on how he ‘managed to save his jumps despite being a bit off’ due to his incredible core

    Quote Originally Posted by emdee
    Kurt was my all time fave but this boy Patrick is something special
    I loved all my favourites but right now, Patrick IS my divine skater. .....

    Yes, agree with manhn! Being figure skating fans, we are fortunate to have witnessed and enjoyed these incredible gifted athletes. Elvis, Kurt, Yag, Patrick etc. would have excelled, COP or 6.0.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  5. #485
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    Kurt stopped doing the lutz when he turned pro-- or so he said.

  6. #486
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    Kurt did 'two' triple lutzes in his 1992 Olympic LP. I also think he would have excelled under the CoP. I think the difference in their ages - Kurt being four or five years older in 1994 than Patrick will be in 2014 is what we're actually comparing, but we should be thinking back four years to 1990 for Kurt to get a proper comparison of technical ability - if Kurt had been trained in the CoP at that time, there's no doubt in my mind he'd be giving Patrick a run for his money. Patrick sometimes reminds me more of Stojko than of Kurt, but it's only fleeting. On the other hand I think Elvis would have a tough time with CoP - he was awfully stubborn about his 'style'.

  7. #487

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    ^^^ However stubborn Elvis was, he might adapt to COP if it meant winning?

    Can't remember whether I have posted this vid here before. A Patrick's montage. Luckiest, it's for you. Chiddy's smiles and happy face.
    Last edited by spikydurian; 11-22-2013 at 02:20 PM.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  8. #488
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    I was a huge Elvis fan, but even I'm not sure he would have been able to adapt to COP. He was quite stubborn about certain things (pointing his toes, and spread eagles come to mind). LOL.

    spikydurian, OMG that was awesome! Thank you so much!

  9. #489

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    There are plenty of skaters who don't point their toes, etc and still get sky-high marks under COP.

    What was Elvis' issue with spread eagles?

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    ^^^ However stubborn Elvis was, he might adapt to COP if it meant winning?

    Can't remember whether I have posted this vid here before. A Patrick's montage. Luckiest, it's for you. Chiddy's smiles and happy face.
    Fabulous Spikey! That's a keeper!. As you're so good at finding vids, the one I can't track down is when Canada's French network, Radio Canada, sent Patrick to waylay and interview Brian Joubert. It was at a competition before the London world's but I can't remember where or when. The image of a frisky lab puppy dancing around a great bear, and totally delightful. I think it only aired on Radio Canada, and I can't find it on their site.

  11. #491

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    I'm thinking that if the judging system hadn't changed in 2004, what we would see now is the kind of programs Proustable was dreaming of for Patrick - five quads and quad-quad combinations in one program - but I suspect with little room left in for choreo.
    No one would survive the physical demands of technical content like that for long enough to have any choreography,
    We would have reached the point of diminishing returns, IMO.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingguy View Post
    I was rewatching Chan's short program from worlds last season and from TEB last week and the thing I noticed was the ending. In London last year Chan was celebrating the program a lot, probably because he hadn't skated a clean short program for most of the season, but at TEB he was just relaxed and waved to the crowd. I think it says a lot about his head space this season and I think it is a positive sign about the events to come.
    I forget which of the (many) videos of TEB I watched, but in one of them, Patrick said his goal was to do a clean long program, which is what he does in practices. So it seems he's somewhat used to doing everything, which may be why there was less celebration.

    Hoping that whatever he's doing so wonderfully keeps working for him. If when in Sochi he skates remotely like he did in Paris, he will be unbeatable (as it should be with a well-skating Chan).

  13. #493
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    Now I am concerned...with the crazy judging in CoR, who knows....

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Now I am concerned...with the crazy judging in CoR, who knows....
    I reeeeaaally hope the judges are smart enough not to be THAT obvious. I think they know figure skating doesn't need yet another judging controversy.

    I think the Russian Fed are politiking their own skaters for Olympic spots, not that they're going to unseat the favorites at the Olympics. B&S beating both D&W and V&M would be utterly preposterous. And I do wager a clean Chan would beat a clean Plushenko at this point in time.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post

    Can't remember whether I have posted this vid here before. A Patrick's montage. Luckiest, it's for you. Chiddy's smiles and happy face.
    Love this. Thanks for posting.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  16. #496
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    It is the NBC version of Patrick at TEB (included interview)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeruOeYMDSE

    This is important of Patrick how to breathing during to perform the program.

  17. #497

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    Thanks crosses9. He was talking about maintaining the right pace throughout the program. It really takes a lot of practice to 'learn to breathe properly' so that it becomes natural (ie. you don't think need to think of when you need to breathe in and out). I am learning some simple qigong exercise and every movement I need to learn whether to breathe in or out. It doesn't come naturally.

    Corianna, I tried to google for the interview with Joubert on Radio Canada but couldn't find anything. Maybe we can try contacting Radio Canada?

    Here's and old vid of Patrick participating in the Liberty competition in 2007. Yes, he's only 16yo then. Notice his already very good footwork at that age. His jumps weren't bad.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  18. #498
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    I think the erratic judging this year is just part of a historical pattern of pre-Olympic positioning and posturing. No one other than figure skating fans are really paying attention so they're all having a go at getting their favourites in line to be a contender. I'm sure the Olympic judging will be better.

  19. #499

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    ^^^ Yes, we'll see how it goes in the GPF. It is not easy to compare between competitions. Two weeks more to go!
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I reeeeaaally hope the judges are smart enough not to be THAT obvious. I think they know figure skating doesn't need yet another judging controversy.
    Judges. Smart? One would hope, but history has proven otherwise. They may know skating doesn't need another judging controversy but question is do they care? Why is the judging 'erratic'? Why will it be better in Sochi? Why not now? This a friggin' sport. Judge it. Properly. According to the rules at every competiton, or why bother? You don't get to 'position your countries skaters or your faves' . You judge what they do plain and simple. Again it's a sport or it isn't and this crap says it isn't so kick the damn thing out of the Olympics. Sorry I don't mean to rant but I'm getting fed up, I am this close to being done with it.
    Last edited by sequins; 11-25-2013 at 05:59 PM.

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