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  1. #461

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    There is the 2nd axel which is a planned double towards the end of the program. He went into it with such gusto at TEB, I sort of wondered if he had been practicing it as a second triple axel. I thought Kurt's message to Patrick in his commentary was plain - you've got enough buddy, just skate like that!!
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  2. #462
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    Seems he and Kurt have a bet on about that double, which Patrick has singled more than once- (no biggie) which might explain the gusto. He was determined to get it right. I can't imagine he would plan the second triple A that late unless he'd put the combo earlier- but who knows? Yeah, that was the message, and when he skates like that, it is more than enough.

  3. #463
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    IMHO, I truly think PChiddy's gusto is an answer to all the doubters and haters who implied he really was not good, just a favourite of judges, who consistently awarded him unfairly high marks. Way to go Patrick, no one can possibly infer anything about this result other than that he a truly great skater.

  4. #464
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    Well said.

  5. #465
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    So, now that the dust has settled and we've all watched the LP a few dozen times (right?), some general thoughts.

    a) Has he peaked? Who knows. I think the thing that impressed me most was the balance between calm and focus that he demonstrated. Ideally, he has an even better (or equally great) performance at the Olympics, but really, having this performance just once is also pretty phenomenal.

    b) Both Kurt Browning and the lady on B. Eurosport mentioned that Chan had learned exactly what he needed to do to land the jumps ("torque it more/open up" - just course correction in general).

    c) From Kurt: "I know he's been playing around with the quadruple salchow, not gonna put it in a Nationals." Part of me wants Chan to just explode and do everything - quad flips, quad salchows, quad-quad combinations - the hypothetical program he's been doing in my head has him landing five quads (two flips, one lutz, salchow and toe). I know, cray-cray. But then I remember how much adding the quad toe threw him off at first. The thing is he's got everything he needs.

    d) On the other hand, he's mentioned before he aspires to be the sport's equivalent of Tiger Woods and Roger Federer. He likes breaking records. He confirmed (to himself and Kathy Johnson) after the LP scores were read that he had broken the world record. He's mentioned before that he wants to be the first to hit 300 - he thinks that'll put the new scoring system back on the map. And in that vein, I can see him trying to figure out what he needs to do to break 300.

    e) I don't think he needs to add technical firepower, though (beyond the spin levels). I do think he can hit 300.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    d) On the other hand, he's mentioned before he aspires to be the sport's equivalent of Tiger Woods and Roger Federer. He likes breaking records. He confirmed (to himself and Kathy Johnson) after the LP scores were read that he had broken the world record. He's mentioned before that he wants to be the first to hit 300 - he thinks that'll put the new scoring system back on the map. And in that vein, I can see him trying to figure out what he needs to do to break 300.

    e) I don't think he needs to add technical firepower, though (beyond the spin levels). I do think he can hit 300.
    He could have easily got 300 at TEB. I felt he was undermarked for the SP. His presentation mark was low, nothing over 9.25. Even the guy from Eurosport was calling for 100+. It's crazy to think that he's only 3 points ahead of Yuzuru Hanyu. As good as YH was, no way they should be that close. As the Eurosport commentator said, it's a boy skating vs a man skating.

    On the LP, Patrick has two "tight" landing on two jumps, plus the last spin was a bit wonky. So yeah, if he skates like what he did at TEB during the Olympics, I'm sure he will get 300+

  7. #467
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    Isn't it quite funny that it's 'performance/execution' and 'interpretation' for his LP and 'interpretation' for his SP instead of 'skating skills' and 'transition/footworks' that Patrick got a few 10s? So, perhaps we can hope for some 10s in skating skills and transition/footworks in his future competition. But seriously, I'm just so happy that Patrick was able to put together two clean and phenomenally skated programmes, though there are of course still people naysaying about him or that he could only skate clean when he's not under pressure, I don't care, I'd just bask in this happiness until his next competition.

  8. #468

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    The number of current men competing with one quad in the short and two in the long, one in combination with a triple, tons of transitions, fantastic footwork, well constructed programs consistently clean are - um ??? I am a major fan of Kurt and thought I was in heaven when I watched his "Casablanca" live at Canadians. I watched his world performance of it the other night - and absolutely charming and fantastic as it was, by todays standards there are a lot of breaks in that program. These guys of today have a lot to accomplish out there in just a few minutes to hit the levels and get the marks.
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  9. #469
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    I was watching Yagudin's Olympic LP last week. It was famous at that time. But by today's standard, it would have no chance to win Gold. I really, really hope Patrick will win Gold. If he skates like he did in TEB at Olympic, it will become a classic years to come.

  10. #470

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    I was rewatching Chan's short program from worlds last season and from TEB last week and the thing I noticed was the ending. In London last year Chan was celebrating the program a lot, probably because he hadn't skated a clean short program for most of the season, but at TEB he was just relaxed and waved to the crowd. I think it says a lot about his head space this season and I think it is a positive sign about the events to come.

  11. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post
    The number of current men competing with one quad in the short and two in the long, one in combination with a triple, tons of transitions, fantastic footwork, well constructed programs consistently clean are - um ??? I am a major fan of Kurt and thought I was in heaven when I watched his "Casablanca" live at Canadians. I watched his world performance of it the other night - and absolutely charming and fantastic as it was, by todays standards there are a lot of breaks in that program. These guys of today have a lot to accomplish out there in just a few minutes to hit the levels and get the marks.
    ITA
    One has to remember that it was a different time and a different place. Kurt himself said he wasnt as disciplined at Patrick. There was no requirement to provide anything more than they did. Skating was more an art and less a sport. Now it is usualy judged as a sport but those who shine bring the art to the sport ( like Patrick does).

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingguy View Post
    I was rewatching Chan's short program from worlds last season and from TEB last week and the thing I noticed was the ending. In London last year Chan was celebrating the program a lot, probably because he hadn't skated a clean short program for most of the season, but at TEB he was just relaxed and waved to the crowd. I think it says a lot about his head space this season and I think it is a positive sign about the events to come.
    I think he wanted to do well in Canada last year. TEB this year was in his mind no more than a building block.

  13. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable
    On the other hand, he's mentioned before he aspires to be the sport's equivalent of Tiger Woods and Roger Federer.
    I think when he spoke about Woods and Federer, he might be referring to their dominance in their sport. The reality is that figure skating does not have that long life span like golf and tennis.

    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian
    I was watching Yagudin's Olympic LP last week. It was famous at that time. But by today's standard, it would have no chance to win
    To be fair to Yag, different time different criteria. Before COP. it's all about not falling and win. Now it's about trying the 'hardest trick' and pushing yourself. That's why even one may fall, one can win if one performs all other difficult elements well.

    I agree with Emdee. If you compare his programs from Thornhill onwards, it's layer upon layer. He has to start early because Olympics is in February not March. First get the transitions in place. Then the jumps and more jumps. His skate in TEB is not perfect as in he can still get more marks out of it. He has time and again said his goal is Sochi so I assume his layering will be only completed around Nationals so the final product can be sold in February!
    Last edited by spikydurian; 11-21-2013 at 01:13 PM.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  14. #474

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    [QUOTE=spikydurian;4057856]


    To be fair to Yag, different time different criteria. Before COP. it's all about not falling and win. Now it's about trying the 'hardest trick' and pushing yourself. That's why even one may fall, one can win if one performs all other difficult elements well.


    Yes, I am in no way belittling the terrific accomplishments of those fantastic skaters and their delightful programs but I wonder with COP and the new criteria, if we, the fans, don't always take this new criteria into consideration when we respond to the more frequent less then perfect programs of today. I guess I don't like to hear the "finally a clean skate" said about so many of them - especially Patrick - as if they are the exception and everyone else is knocking them off all the time. When Patrick, Dai, Jeremy, Javier, Hanyua, etc. perform two clean programs, nothing watered down, in these big events - it is so very special!
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  15. #475
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    Browning wasn't any slouch technically though - triple axle-triple toe in both short and long, which hardly any of the men seem capable of now, and in 1991 three triple-triple combinations. I think if anyone else had been doing quads at the time, he'd have upped his game.

    I read recently that one of the things Patrick and Kathy Johnson were working on in the off-season was maintaining his balance. That could be why he's had four clean performances this fall.

  16. #476
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    Quote - Browning wasn't any slouch technically though - triple axle-triple toe in both short and long, which hardly any of the men seem capable of now, and in 1991 three triple-triple combinations. I think if anyone else had been doing quads at the time, he'd have upped his game.

    And don't forget Kurt landed the first quad ever.

  17. #477
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    I had mentioned that Patrick usually takes holidays around his birthday. I think he will probably take time off earlier this year, maybe after the GPF as the Canadians is very close to the New year and he will likely want to training solidly as well as be present for media pre this event.

    Two weeks or so to go to see him again!

  18. #478
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    Yep! (In response to Corianna, btw)
    Last edited by bunhead; 11-21-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  19. #479
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    I know that Kurt landed the first ratified quadruple but it was actually Stojko IMO who opened the era of quads and the judges were so impressed with his athleticism and consistency on the hard jumps that there was no way for other skaters - I'm referring to the Russian champions - to beat Elvis other than try to outjump him. Was there any skater in the Yagudin/Plushenko era who could do multiple quads with complex choreographies and superior presentation and he wasn't properly rewarded by the judges? I honestly don't remember any. That some of the current skaters can do the hard jumps and also incorporate intricate movement might be the natural progression of the sport but these skaters can rarely deliver clean programs.

    I'm thinking that if the judging system hadn't changed in 2004, what we would see now is the kind of programs Proustable was dreaming of for Patrick - five quads and quad-quad combinations in one program - but I suspect with little room left in for choreo.

    Just trying to imagine sometimes what competitive skating will look like twenty or thirty years from now. I guess Patrick is one of the lucky ones because he has those divine skating skills that never get old. He epitomizes figure skating.

    Just rewatched his Elegy from TEB and felt I didn't appreciate this program enough last season. It's exquisite and hard to beat in elegance and refinement.

    Hopefully he'll also get to skate his new ex cleanly by Nationals, it really has brilliant choreo. Here is his practice with a funny moment with Scott.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiYSNAjF7UA

    ETA. Wasn't the 3Lz Kurt's nemesis jump?

  20. #480

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    Yes, 3Lz was just not Kurt's friend and he made no bones about it. In the absolutely fantastic video of "Casablanca" I watched, he landed both triple axels with no problem but the 3Lz. - more like a good attempt. I do miss something about the pre 2004 programs and I'm glad I was a fan then and now.
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