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  1. #521
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    I think I heard that his personal goal for the Olys is 300 so yes his program is worked for him to top that.

    The scare tactic ( which he didnt mean) is probably in his favour. Seeing his perfect skate at TEB others are likely going to go back and load their programs with high level elements and choreo just putting more stress on themselves. This could work for or against him IMO. Judging from interviews etc it seems to me that some others have just conceded to him. Brezina's face as he stood clapping for Patrick on the boards at the TEB FS was telling indeed.

  2. #522

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    I don't really see Patrick changing the program at this point to add the second 3A. He couldn't turn the 2A at the end of the program to a 3A because then it wouldn't count as he would have already had two 4Ts and two 3Lzs. In order to add the second 3A it would have to replace the 2nd 3Lz and then take the 2T from the end of the 3F and add it to one of the 3As.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    I think I heard that his personal goal for the Olys is 300 so yes his program is worked for him to top that.

    The scare tactic ( which he didnt mean) is probably in his favour. Seeing his perfect skate at TEB others are likely going to go back and load their programs with high level elements and choreo just putting more stress on themselves. This could work for or against him IMO. Judging from interviews etc it seems to me that some others have just conceded to him. Brezina's face as he stood clapping for Patrick on the boards at the TEB FS was telling indeed.
    Agreed. Another interesting reaction was John Coughlin shaking his head and mouthing "wow".

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Like manhn said, the Japanese men have more to lose.

    jett, not sure what he has to gain in adding an additional jump. It may disturb his current rhythm which seems to be going well. Then again, we don't know what his team has in mind. It probably depends on how well he and his competitors are progressing. Will see .... should know by Nationals.
    Other than Dai/Hanyu, the other 4 Japanese have more to lose. I don't see how those two will not go to Sochi. Once their National is over, they will be more focus on Sochi, and they are major threat to Patrick. Patrick's TES can be beat. So if he's comfortable with his 3A, I can see he will add. EVERYONE POINT counts.

    Okay, so for curiosity's sake. If Patrick adds another 3A, meaning he will have to replace it with 3Lz and in combination, what additional marks will he get?
    Last edited by jettasian; 11-28-2013 at 02:29 AM.

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    IMO Patrick doesn't need more difficult content if he can skate cleanly because the skaters who could arguably beat him on TES don't score anywhere near him on the PC mark.
    True. But that also leave him with no room for error. If Dai/Hanyu skate well, and Patrick makes one error, it can be costly.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Other than Dai/Hanyu, the other 4 Japanese have more to lose. I don't see how those two will not go to Sochi. Once their National is over, they will be more focus on Sochi, and they are major threat to Patrick. Patrick's TES can be beat. So if he's comfortable with his 3A, I can see he will add. EVERYONE POINT counts.

    Okay, so for curiosity's sake. If Patrick adds another 3A, meaning he will have to replace it with 3Lz and in combination, what additional marks will he get?
    Assuming he does a 3A+2T, 3F and 2A instead of a 3Lz, 3F+2T, and 2A, his base value increased by 3.52. If he does the triple axel combination in the first half and does the solo in the second, he gains "only" 3.39. I'd love it if he had the 4S or 4F, though.

    I'd assert for all the Japanese skaters, that guaranteeing your spot before Nationals (as Chan's spot basically is) allows them to gear up for the Olympics more appropriately.

  7. #527
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    Their nationals are early though.

  8. #528
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    I can't imagine Patrick changing up his program at this point. Usually he takes all season to get really comfortable with a program, learn all the breathing spots, etc. I also vaguely remember him saying there would be no new tech development this season. He really doesn't need a second 3A. He gets such high goe on his jumps that he's equal or better than the other guys in TES anyway.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    Seeing his perfect skate at TEB others are likely going to go back and load their programs with high level elements and choreo just putting more stress on themselves. This could work for or against him IMO. Judging from interviews etc it seems to me that some others have just conceded to him. Brezina's face as he stood clapping for Patrick on the boards at the TEB FS was telling indeed.
    I wondered whether Patrick missed a two double jump combo following a triple late in the program. There was a tiny stumble and it looked to me like he missed the chance to launch the second double. It is just a few points, yes, but a few points that could make the difference between gold and silver - and a few points he can work towards ensuring he earns in Sochi. Basically, I think he can still take his programs to a higher level.

    And of course the team event is the wild card this season. CBC explored that at length when Browning interviewed Buttle. Buttle's view was positive and he saw the team event as a run through to work out the final kinks. Kurt wasn't sure what he thought about the new event, especially since is the first time it has been competed at in the Olympics and no skaters know how to train for it, as well as their individual events.

    Basically, we should be prepared for the team event to wreak havoc with the individual results.

    It will make for an interesting Olympics, that's for sure.

  10. #530
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    I wondered whether Patrick missed a two double jump combo following a triple late in the program.
    No, he didn't. What you saw at TEB is exactly the jump layout he has planned for the long program.

    Seeing his perfect skate at TEB others are likely going to go back and load their programs with high level elements and choreo just putting more stress on themselves.
    Who do you have in mind, emdee? I personally don't think Orser for instance would encourage his students to do even more difficult elements than they are already attempting and, choreographically speaking, the free skates of both Javier and Yuzuru look like finished products to me.
    Last edited by VarBar; 11-28-2013 at 11:57 AM.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Assuming he does a 3A+2T, 3F and 2A instead of a 3Lz, 3F+2T, and 2A, his base value increased by 3.52. If he does the triple axel combination in the first half and does the solo in the second, he gains "only" 3.39. I'd love it if he had the 4S or 4F, though.
    Thanks. Wow...with such higher risk, only to gain 3+ point? Lol...okay maybe it's not worth it. That's still the problem with the scoring system. Take the TEB as an example. Patrick and Hanyu skated a clean program. Hanyu got higher TES because he placed his combo after mid point. I am sure Patrick could do the same. But 4+3 to start is such a bomb. I think it doesn't get reward more than it should considering it's the most difficult jump. It's crazy to think that putting a solo quad, then 3+3 later get you more point then 4+3 and 3.

  12. #532

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    I can't imagine Patrick changing up his program at this point. Usually he takes all season to get really comfortable with a program, learn all the breathing spots, etc. I also vaguely remember him saying there would be no new tech development this season. He really doesn't need a second 3A. He gets such high goe on his jumps that he's equal or better than the other guys in TES anyway.
    That's my feeling too. Yes, he said he won't be doing any 'new crazy stuff' this season. He's doing what he is comfy with (I personally that's wise because the goal is not to show creativity but to win in Sochi). jett, that means he will do all the quads and 3A in the first half. I think concentrating on getting his 3A in his back pocket (as Kurt advised) and aiming the highest level and best GOEs for all his elements and skating is the way to go and I think is his strategy too. I am happy that Vivaldi is well received by judges and fans alike. La Boheme attracted mixed reactions last season.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  13. #533

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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Thanks. Wow...with such higher risk, only to gain 3+ point? Lol...okay maybe it's not worth it. That's still the problem with the scoring system. Take the TEB as an example. Patrick and Hanyu skated a clean program. Hanyu got higher TES because he placed his combo after mid point. I am sure Patrick could do the same. But 4+3 to start is such a bomb. I think it doesn't get reward more than it should considering it's the most difficult jump. It's crazy to think that putting a solo quad, then 3+3 later get you more point then 4+3 and 3.
    I agree, and I think that combinations should be worth an extra 10% above the base mark of the combined jumps, thereby awarding skaters who do more difficult combinations - it would also encourage skaters to attempt more difficult combinations.

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I am happy that Vivaldi is well received by judges and fans alike. La Boheme attracted mixed reactions last season.
    I thought La Boheme was well received. However, Patrick seemed to struggle with it. I personally loved it. It's too bad that he did not skate a clean La Boheme all season?

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post


    Who do you have in mind, emdee? I personally don't think Orser for instance would encourage his students to do even more difficult elements than they are already attempting and, choreographically speaking, the free skates of both Javier and Yuzuru look like finished products to me.
    I know that Hanyu has not been skating ith full choreo ...that was Wilson's complaint. In order to beat patrick all his competitors will tweak what they have.

  16. #536
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    I was surprised how high Hanyu's marks were at TEB. He's no way at Patrick's level, yet his marks indicated he is So if he skates clean and Patrick makes one error, he will win

  17. #537

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    Hanyu had the higher TES in the short because he does his combo at the second half the program. But his PCS is almost 4 pts behind Patrick's--which is quite a bit. In the long, Hanyu's PCS was *15* pts behind Patrick's. When it comes to the short program, Hanyu is viewed as the solid #2 if all men skate clean. However, Hanyu is not the solid #2 even if he skates his long clean (granted, he hasn't really been close, but his PCS are significantly lower).

    I try not to concern myself about what skaters can beat a flawed Chan. Chan can only control what he can do--so skate clean.

  18. #538
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    Hanyu also does his 3A in the second half of the program, which brings him a bonus of 0.85.

    Chan can only control what he can do--so skate clean.
    Indeed.

  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I wondered whether Patrick missed a two double jump combo following a triple late in the program. There was a tiny stumble and it looked to me like he missed the chance to launch the second double. It is just a few points, yes, but a few points that could make the difference between gold and silver - and a few points he can work towards ensuring he earns in Sochi. Basically, I think he can still take his programs to a higher level.
    He can't do a 3 jump combo late in the program, because his triple lutz - half loop - triple salchow is already a 3 jump combo, and the skaters are only allowed one. So he can't add another double toe or double loop onto his triple flip-triple toe combo because he wouldn't get any credit.

  20. #540
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    So what is your fave part of Patrick's LP this season? My fave part is right after the 2A near the end, the music changed and the foot work started, very fast, uplifting, great choreo matching the music, just awesome to watch. I hope more people will clap their hands at Olympic during that section.

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