View Poll Results: Pick the THREE best USA ladies rivalries....

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  • Tenley Albright vs Carol Heiss

    28 25.69%
  • Roslynn Sumners vs Elaine Zayak

    14 12.84%
  • Caryn Kadavy vs Jill Trenary

    7 6.42%
  • Jill Trenary vs Kristi Yamaguchi

    1 0.92%
  • Yamaguchi vs Tonya Harding

    17 15.60%
  • Tonya vs Nancy

    29 26.61%
  • Michelle Kwan vs Nicole Bobek

    2 1.83%
  • Kwan vs Tara Lipinski

    59 54.13%
  • Kwan vs Sasha Cohen

    21 19.27%
  • Cohen vs the Ice

    30 27.52%
  • Caroline Zhang vs Mirai Nagasu vs Rachael Flatt

    6 5.50%
  • Ashley Wagner vs Gracie Gold

    7 6.42%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #21

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    Tenley Albright vs Carol Heiss
    Kwan vs Tara Lipinski
    Kwan vs Sasha Cohen

    . . . and they were all very similar.

  2. #22
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    How was Sasha good rival to Michelle though with the lopsided head to head. It was same head to head as Butyrskaya had with Michelle basically, and even saying Sasha led Michelle after the short is no different as Maria often led Michelle after the short but nobody considers Maria a good rival for Michelle for example, so how is Sasha.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    How was Sasha good rival to Michelle though with the lopsided head to head . . .
    Because Sasha could have always skated better than she did.

  4. #24
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    Michelle vs. Tara was my favourite since they both were World champions at some point and finished 1-2 at the 1998 Olympics. The 1998 Olympics showdown in the long was one of the most exciting figure skating competitions I've ever watched.

    Second, I voted for Nancy vs. Tonya because of all the drama it caused, even though it isn't exactly a rivalry I like.

    I voted for Cohen vs. the Ice third because I honestly wasn't sure which one to pick, and seeing Sasha struggle to skate clean performances, even with her amazing skating skills, is very memorable. The first three listed were really before my time, and I didn't really see Kwan and Bobek as rivals. I always thought Kwan was totally superior. Same, really, with Kwan and Cohen, even if Cohen was able to beat Kwan occasionally. The Zhang, Nagasu and Flatt wasn't that exciting because none of the three ever managed to medal at a Worlds and I wouldn't really consider Zhang a rival of the other two for very long. Ashley vs. Gracie has only been a rivalry for like a few months so it can't be a favourite of mine.. yet.. plus neither Ashley nor Gracie has won a world medal either.

  5. #25
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    Bobek and Kwan were big rivals in 94 and 95. Thereafter Bobek was no rival.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    How was Sasha good rival to Michelle though with the lopsided head to head. It was same head to head as Butyrskaya had with Michelle basically, and even saying Sasha led Michelle after the short is no different as Maria often led Michelle after the short but nobody considers Maria a good rival for Michelle for example, so how is Sasha.
    Sasha was a bad rival for Michelle for various reasons. Sasha did some things Michelle was known for much better than Kwan. I believe this caused years of hostility and reaction among Kwan patrons and fans. I have never heard or read so much about a skater's trivial technical inadequacies as I have heard said about Sasha. This rivalry was sensitive, and Sasha was too easy to kick while she was down because she went down so often! It also was a shame from the perspective of someone like me who admires Michelle and her skating because Sasha was so much better suited to IJS. I think the USFSA failure to implement IJS in 2005 was influenced by a desire to help Kwan tie the record for national titles. Kwan could have beaten Cohen even if '05 Nats used IJS. Stil I think she did not develop her program that season by the numbers because she wanted to stay ahead of Sasha and knew a strong 6.0 program at nationals was a great opportunity to do that. In light of the injuries that were playing out, this all probably does not matter; but I wish Kwan could have won the bronze at '05 worlds. I think she would have with the right program strategy.

    Sasha was sometimes under-appreciated and maligned by people who were hyper-defensive of Kwan. I think some projected negative personality stereotypes onto Cohen that were not true. I would say that some were even anti-Semitic, implying she was spoiled, selfish, lazy, etc. Alas, I don't really want to open old wounds. I can imagine this discussion getting emotive. We should stick to discussing the quality of the competition between them. Overall, I think Kwan vs Cohen was interesting in 2000, but it got to be unproductive, insignificant, or disappointing-- for Sasha and/or Kwan--thereafter.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 06-25-2013 at 06:08 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    How was Sasha good rival to Michelle though with the lopsided head to head.
    I read this as Sasha having a lollipop head and thought, "well yeah, she does. But what has that to do with anything?"

  8. #28
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    I voted for Albright and Heiss since they both battled for Olympic titles and each won one as well.

    Bobek vs. Kwan is the great rivalry that could have been. But Bobek got lazy. Or maybe her mom destroyed her career. Or both.

  9. #29
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    I can't believe anyone would vote for Tonya and Nancy. After 91 worlds I don't think Harding beat Kerrigan ever again. The only rivalry was in Harding's mind.

  10. #30
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    It is funny how Kerrigan owned Harding, Yamaguchi owned Kerrigan, yet Harding was actually capable of beating Yamaguchi. A funny three pronged situation. In fact Yamaguchi was the only one Kerrigan was always completely incapable of beating. She could even beat Ito on an off day (eg- 91 Worlds), but never Kristi even at Kristi's worst. Yuka Sato beat Yamaguchi many times, especialy in pros, and Kerrigan almost always beat Sato, but still Kerrigan never once could beat Yamaguchi as a junior, senior, or pro.

    Maybe had Kerrigan won the 94 Olympic Gold over Baiul, Kerrigan would have gotten her first win over Kristi at the fixed Gold Championships depending if Dick deemed her the desired winner moreso than Kristi beforehand or not. As long as she landed atleast 2 triples and didnt fall more than twice that is (which given most of Nancy's pro performances was no safe bet).

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I can't believe anyone would vote for Tonya and Nancy. After 91 worlds I don't think Harding beat Kerrigan ever again. The only rivalry was in Harding's mind.
    It was a good media generated rivalry for the sport. You couldn't draw in more people. It was raw, emotional, and everyone who ever went to a normal high school felt they knew both women. Both skaters had intersecting histories, so it wasn't all hype and knee whacking. That was the beauty of it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    As long as she landed atleast 2 triples and didnt fall more than twice that is (which given most of Nancy's pro performances was no safe bet).
    Which pro-performances by Nancy were clean?

  13. #33
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    None that I recall. It was funny how she dedicated herself like never before for the 93-94 season, then completely went into majorly lazy practice skater, even far more than what she was before 93-94 as a pro. I think not winning the Lillehammer Gold took all the heart out of her skating for good, and also falling in love and all the drama from the Harding-Kerrigan thing just drained her enthusiasm to try and be a great or even respectable pro skater. I remember one year the World Pros she managed to stumble badly out of all of a spiral, a simple camel spin, and a spread eagle. I didnt know whether to laugh or cry for her.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Which pro-performances by Nancy were clean?
    Her 2000 Goodwill Games artistic program is one.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    None that I recall. It was funny how she dedicated herself like never before for the 93-94 season, then completely went into majorly lazy practice skater, even far more than what she was before 93-94 as a pro. I think not winning the Lillehammer Gold took all the heart out of her skating for good, and also falling in love and all the drama from the Harding-Kerrigan thing just drained her enthusiasm to try and be a great or even respectable pro skater. I remember one year the World Pros she managed to stumble badly out of all of a spiral, a simple camel spin, and a spread eagle. I didnt know whether to laugh or cry for her.
    The problem with Kerrigan for so long as a pro was it seemed she didn't want to be there. Unlike Sato, Yamaguchi or Rory Flack she seemed almost embarassed to be skating. As a result the jumps went out the window, her artistry was void and so were her results. I do think she improved in her final year or so of skating as a pro though.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Her 2000 Goodwill Games artistic program is one.
    That was actually really nice! Great she beat Baiul, even if only for the bronze at that event, getting revenge for Lillehammer. Bonaly also edged Sato for the win there, gaining revenge for the 94 Worlds.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    That was actually really nice! Great she beat Baiul, even if only for the bronze at that event, getting revenge for Lillehammer. Bonaly also edged Sato for the win there, gaining revenge for the 94 Worlds.
    Agreed. Had Mary given Nancy a program like this earlier, she may have won in Lillehammer.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I can't believe anyone would vote for Tonya and Nancy. After 91 worlds I don't think Harding beat Kerrigan ever again. The only rivalry was in Harding's mind.
    How could Tonya be Kerrigan's rival when Kerrigan was the recipient of blatant favortism.

  19. #39
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    Kerrigan was given blatant favoritism at the 92 worlds, and 92 Olympics LP. A case could be made her being off the podium on both. Where else was it so blatant though. Her 3rd at 91 worlds was due to Ito's unexpected meltdown, so she deserved it. 93 nationals win was because noone else skated even halfway decent, then when she bombed worlds the judges sent her spiraling down the ranks. In Lillehammer she was held down to silver.

    I don't remember how she skated at the 92 nats to win silver but both her and Harding were off their game at that competition.

  20. #40
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    It really should be Cohen vs Herself, the ice had nothing to do with it.

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