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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Again, your opinion. I'm not missing the point cruisin, just because I have a different view than you. I know plenty of Italians who completely disagree with you. I know plenty of people who disagree with you. I disagree with you. Not everything is so straight forward, there's not always a right and a wrong. And luckily we get to decide what we find offensive or not ourselves. If someone's intent is to offend me by calling me a wog, I usually laugh. Why should I let them and that word have power over me? By using the word (among people I know are not offended by it) I'm taking away its power to offend me. You can still be sensitive, I choose not to be. Sometimes, if I really don't like the person or am having a bad day, I'm offended because I don't like others intended to offend me and that pisses me off. But really, there is more to life and I just don't let it bother me. If you think it's demeans YOU, that's fine, but others, some sharing your ethnicity, disagree. And that's okay.

    Of course, we should be sensitive to the thoughts of others when we communicate, but I find it silly that you think you should be able to dictate what I, and others, should find offensive, and shouldn't say.
    And I find it rather arrogant that you think I should not express my opinion. Just as you think the above is fine, I find it offensive. Yet, I'm dictating and you're not.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    And I find it rather arrogant that you think I should not express my opinion. Just as you think the above is fine, I find it offensive. Yet, I'm dictating and you're not.
    I never said you shouldn't express you opinion. I said I disagreed with it. You said I was missing the point, and I said that I'm not, I disagree with your point. But you go ahead and be offended, and I will go ahead and not be.

  3. #163
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    Isn't the very idea that some people are allowed to use certain words and others are not actually a bit racist? How black does one have to be to use the n word? How Italian does one have to be, or Jewish or any other race or ethnicity or religion?

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Isn't the very idea that some people are allowed to use certain words and others are not actually a bit racist? How black does one have to be to use the n word? How Italian does one have to be, or Jewish or any other race or ethnicity or religion?
    That's an interesting point, and similar to my question - who decides? Is it okay for a white person to say, hey you black people, you can't use the n-word, it's offensive and demeans you? Is it okay for a black person to say, hey you white person, you can't say the n-word, it's offensive and it demeans me (maybe even adding, only I can use it). I don't think anyone should dictate "rules" (though society pretty much has with the n-word) because people can think for themselves and not everyone of the same race, ethnicity or religion has the same opinion. I think instead of "can't" an explanation is better, and a discussion of why the person feels that way, and then sensitivity on both sides. Not everyone knows the background to some terms, and even then, language does evolve and is used differently amongst different culture groups and in different settings. Sometimes language has consequences though, and that is what Paula Deen has now discovered.

  5. #165
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    When a white person says it, it comes off as at worst racist and at best ignorant and dated. When a black person says it, it comes across as incredibly coarse. You won't catch Condoleezza Rice or Cory Booker using it.

    As for Paula Deen, her alleged wrongful treatment of her black and female employees goes far beyond the use of one word.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 06-26-2013 at 05:01 PM. Reason: There's no "e" in "Cory."

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I never said you shouldn't express you opinion. I said I disagreed with it. You said I was missing the point, and I said that I'm not, I disagree with your point. But you go ahead and be offended, and I will go ahead and not be.
    Actually, you accused me of dictating how everyone should behave and think. I expressed how I think. Which seems to be a concept that you understand when it applies to you, but not to me.

    Vagabond, I agree with you.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Isn't the very idea that some people are allowed to use certain words and others are not actually a bit racist? How black does one have to be to use the n word? How Italian does one have to be, or Jewish or any other race or ethnicity or religion?
    Not in my opinion. If a person who is of the same race,culture, religion or ethnic group uses the word in a manner to not to demean the person.

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    When a white person says it, it comes off as at worst racist and at best ignorant and dated. When a black person says it, it comes across as incredibly coarse. You won't catch Condoleezza Rice or Corey Booker using it..
    How do you know what Rice or Booker use in the private to describe other persons of their and other races? We don't really know.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post

    As for Paula Deen, her alleged wrongful treatment of her black and female employees goes far beyond the use of one word.
    Exactly. I understand that people from older generations might slip and let ingrained behavior slip out, such as using the N-word. It's not the right thing to say, but sometimes our past never leaves us and comes out even though we know better and have better intentions. I do know people who I think are basically very decent say something upsetting from the upbringing. It makes me uncomfortable, I might wince, but mostly I let it go.

    But what is being alleged is that she has shown prejudice against employees over a long period time. (ie only whites and lighter skinned people given server responsibilities, while darker skinned employees stay in the back). That shows an intent to discriminate, that people are being given positions based on skin color, not skills and hard work. That's plain wrong, and certainly, if true, justifiable grounds for the lawsuit. What she might have done as an employer bothers me much more anything she might have said.

  10. #170
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    That old saying sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me isn't apparently the whole case with regards to Paula, I'm afraid. FunnyBut, I agree. What she may have done as an employer bothers me much more than the name calling.

    I know in my dad's case, it really didn't bother him one way or the other about the name calling. He just actually let it go through one ear and out the other because of the kind of a person he really was - which IMO, he was a very decent, intelligent and wise man. My dad didn't think twice about going out into the mine field and saving the Sergeant. Apparently, it did open the Sergeant's eyes to what he had done, and he regretted his actions. The best thing of all was that they became very good friends.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    How do you know what Rice or Booker use in the private to describe other persons of their and other races? We don't really know.
    True, but do you actually think they do? It seems inconceivable to me.

    IIRC, you are African-American, topaz, so I'm particularly interested in your perspective on this. Do you know of any black people with Ph.D.'s or J.D.'s who use the word in private?

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    Not in my opinion. If a person who is of the same race,culture, religion or ethnic group uses the word in a manner to not to demean the person.
    When I hear the n word used by musicians about other black people, it doesn't appear to be a compliment. Similarly, its use between black people in movies does not appear to be a compliment either.

    But back to my question - how does one qualify to use such words? The world is pretty mixed up - most people aren't pure anything - so how black or Italian or Jewish or anything else do you need to be to be "allowed" to use these words?

  13. #173
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    At the conclusion of Paula's interview with Matt, she said, "I is what I is, and I'm not changing."


    What a PR nightmare. The world HAS changed, Paula. See Ya!

  14. #174
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    Deen needs to do what Anthony Weiner did. Go away for a while and then try again in a couple of years.

  15. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Isn't the very idea that some people are allowed to use certain words and others are not actually a bit racist? How black does one have to be to use the n word? How Italian does one have to be, or Jewish or any other race or ethnicity or religion?
    In my view, yes.

    O-

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    IIRC, you are African-American, topaz, so I'm particularly interested in your perspective on this. Do you know of any black people with Ph.D.'s or J.D.'s who use the word in private?
    I'm interested in Topaz's thoughts as well, but does it matter if Topaz knows people with Ph.D.'s or J.D.'s who use it or not? People tend not to use swear words in polite/general company. Wouldn't that apply here? Like Topaz said, who knows what they say in private?

    Are non-African Americans really trying to qualify who can use the n-word?
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  17. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Actually, you accused me of dictating how everyone should behave and think.
    No, I did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andora View Post
    Are non-African Americans really trying to qualify who can use the n-word?
    Yes. But really, why should one group of people decide anyway? Not all African Americans think the same way. Which group gets to decide who can and can't use the word? Sounds like some think it should based on university degrees...I really have no idea why that is relevant at all.

  18. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Yes.
    Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    But really, why should one group of people decide anyway? Not all African Americans think the same way. Which group gets to decide who can and can't use the word?
    Probably not the privileged group that-- not so long ago-- regularly used the word (among others) to denigrate a very marginalized group.
    "How you treat the weak is
    Your true nature calling" -- Jane's Addiction

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Where in the world did you come up with numbers like that? Here are the figures provided from the Tuskegee Institute.

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...chingyear.html

    Paula Deen had a very comfortable life in the south - she was more privileged than Bill Clinton in her youth than he was in his.
    My point is that Deen grew up in a highly charged, racially murderous environment in those decades. She may have even been sheltered to an extent but she surely heard about it at school. And as for the lynchings, you are probably right although I am sure many were never reported especially dating from slavery days. And lets not forget KKK cross burnings, bombings, and assassinations they carried out And as I said in my post Clinton's background privileged or no doesn't mean persons of such backgrounds aren't racists. There are doctors and lawyers who are members of the KKK. I still say Deen's upbringing is the reason she said what she said decades ago. We learn from our environment. The past is gone and she should be forgiven for anything she may have said in her youth. The more recent events are more concerning to me. Several African-Americans have been speaking in her defense including her pastor friend. I guess he would know Paula better than most of us here. You seem to keep trying to convince me that Paula Deen is this evil, wicked person and I'm just not buying it. She's an ignorant woman who made a mistake and she's trying to do her best to make up for it. She's also being punished, losing one sponsor after another. She's being crucified and I don't agree with that. She didn't rape or murder anyone, she used inappropriate words that she has owned were wrong and has asked for forgiveness. You don't have to forgive her. I do.

    Paula Deen is not a racist:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb5HDsympiE
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 06-26-2013 at 11:01 PM.

  20. #180
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3505258.html
    Walmart has just dropped her. I don't know what her people thought they were doing by letting her do this interview because it seems to have just made things worse.

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