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  1. #321
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    The point is that she continued to push unhealthy foods while she had diabetes. She could have started to cut back on the sugar and butter without telling us about her medical condition. Or at least put more of an emphasis on the idea that her recipes/cooking style were not meant for everyday meals.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

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    There are many, many diabetics who, following diagnosis, don't make healthy changes immediately. Paula was one of them. This isn't a crime. Deen herself said on Oprah several years ago that she is a cook, not a nurse, and patients should see their doctors for nutritional counseling.

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    And she's not being charged with it. I do think her celebrity status brings with it a certain responsibility, though.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  4. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Deen herself said on Oprah several years ago that she is a cook, not a nurse
    Well, if she feels that strongly about where her talents/knowledge are, maybe she shouldn't be endorsing medications.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post

    I've been on FSU a long time, and there is usually an outcry of "innocent before proven guilty" with respect to every single coach who has been accused of sexual misconduct with a student or students. I don't even know if one poster has even made such a statement re Deen in this thread. It's an interesting sociological study.
    I'm calling bullshit on this one. Every thread on coaches who have been accused of sexual misconduct with a student has gone exactly as this one has with all sorts of reactions including vehement condemnation.

    This whole "people reacted this way" argument is a tired one. "People" aren't this single entity. It's illogical to think that I can't have one opinion on Paula Deen because a DIFFERENT person on some other thread at some other time about some other subject said something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    There is a different standard of proof in a civil suit, but there is a standard nonetheless, and there IS indeed a courtroom AND a jury in a civil suit, if a plea is made for a jury trial.
    But this is a message board, not a courtroom. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal principle that says when you are accused of something, the court assumes your innocence and the other party (prosecutor or the one bringing the suit) has the burden of proof. That's it. It says nothing about the general media, the general public, or anyone else and how they have to react to any situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    Of course the public can think whatever they want. What does that have to with anything?
    It has everything to do with everything because FSU is not a courtroom but a public forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    My comment was about why people seemingly have a different reaction to Paula Deen as they do others,
    Except "people" aren't having different reaction. For example, I have NEVER said "innocent until proven guilty" on any thread about coaches being arrested and I'm not saying it here. But even if I had, chances are the situations and use would be completely different.

    You are engaging in a logical fallacy.

    As are all the people on my FB feed who are posting about how Deen is being skewered for "something she did a decade ago" while this or that person is being given a pass. Or how it's "funny" how liberals are against her when she's a liberal but conservatives are for her. No, it's not hypocritical at all for people whose values include being against racism to be upset with Deen. What would be hypocritical would be if they gave her pass for it just because she was "one of theirs" (Assuming she even is a liberal -- the particular person who is 'laughing' about this supposed 'hypocrisy' is not an accurate reporter of such things.)

    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    So, she kept her medical information private--just as 99% of the general public does. When she was offered $6 million to talk about the medication she was using, she accepted--just as 99% of the public would.
    You have absolutely no idea what 99% of the public would do. But based on my FB feed, I would say that 99% of them do not keep their medical information private, for starters.
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  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    So, she kept her medical information private--just as 99% of the general public does. When she was offered $6 million to talk about the medication she was using, she accepted--just as 99% of the public would. Not seeing the problem with this. There's an agency that actually specializes in negotiating pharma endorsements with celebrities. Should we hate Sally Field for keeping mum on her osteoporosis until she cut a deal with Boniva?
    My distaste for Dean regarding the diabetes drug issue was the dishonest reason she gave for finally coming forward with it. She claimed that she waited for 3 years before going public, because she wanted to wait until she had something she could give back to the public. Oh yeah, she had something to "give back to the public" alright .... a big fat endorsement deal for her with a phamaceutical company !!! Then when Dean was on TODAY and AL Roker asked her about the controversy, she arrogantly said something like, "Yes, I am compensated [by the diabete company], just like you are, Al." Uh... I don't remember Roker becoming a spokesperson for Weight Watcher after successfully slimming down with stomach elastic ban surgery. It was clear to anyone who wasn't blind that Dean was lying. If she had admitted that she was afraid of going public with it then that would have been Ok. I'm sure the FN executives were furious with her over this.


    Sallly Field isn't employed by a company that stresses the importance of being honest with your audience, and she doesn't have a job where she has cultivated personal relationship with her audience on a daily basis.
    Last edited by orbitz; 07-01-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    AL Roker asked her about the controversy, she arrogantly said something like, "Yes, I am compensated [by the diabete company], just like you are, Al." Uh... I don't remember Roker becoming a spokesperson for Weight Watcher after successfully slimming down with stomach elastic ban surgery.
    Roker is a paid shill for several industries, but you're correct that he probably won't be a spokesperson for the gastric bypass surgery he had (not "stomach elastic ban"). Considering his surgery made him crap his pants at the White House, and he continues to fart uncontrollably, it's unlikely that industry wishes to be associated with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Sallly Field isn't employed by a company that stresses the importance of being honest with your audience, and she doesn't have a job where she has cultivated personal relationship with her audience on a daily basis.
    Sally Field has capitalized on the public's affection for her, and more power to her for that. Of course, she doesn't mention that, despite taking Boniva, she needs two people to haul her out of her chair, into bathrooms and up stairs. Are you offended by that omission?

    I don't recall any "honesty" mantra cited by Food Network, nor that there was anything particularly dishonest about Deen's show. She displayed a bunch of food ingredients, and informed viewers that if those ingredients were put together, they'd turn into..wait for it...stuff to eat! Yeah, that rascal really pulled one over on America.

  8. #328
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    The difference is that Al was honest about his surgery from the start even though there was no "gastric bypass industry" to give him an endorsement, so he didn't do that for money. (And the WLS community as a whole loves Roker and is happy to be associated with him so you can take your fart jokes and pound sand.)

    Field is an actress. She had no venue to help people with osteoporosis as an actress and so had no reason to tell people she had it prior to her endorsement as telling people didn't really help them. Though there was no reason not to tell either.

    The issue with Deen is that she DID have a venue to help people with diabetes prior to her endorsement and she didn't use it. Then, when she came out and told people about it (and announced her endorsement deal), she claimed she didn't tell us earlier because she didn't have a venue. So that was a lie. That put people off since it was so clearly a lie.

    If Sally Field has gotten her diagnosis, treated her disease with weight bearing exercises but then chosen to endorse a drug pretending it was the drug that helped her, that would be a lie and people would be on her case about it too. Which is not to say that there aren't people on Field's case about using her celebrity and public goodwill to shill drugs because there are. We just aren't talking about it in this thread because this thread is about Paula Deen being a racist.
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  9. #329

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    How many of you could withstand the scrutiny of your entire life history; and the standards you expect - and are imposing - here?

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    How many of us are making money selling our personalities and image?

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post

    I don't recall any "honesty" mantra cited by Food Network, nor that there was anything particularly dishonest about Deen's show.
    I don't know if you've seen the "The Next FN Star" competition, but the two judges, who are also FN executives, are very vocal that the contestants being open and honest with their audience. They can't exactly be preaching that to these wannabies season after season if one of their biggest stars is being publicly dishonest with her audience, now can they?

    You didn't/don't see anything wrong with what Paula did and that's fine; I don't think any number of arguments here are going to change you opinion of her or her current situations.

  12. #332
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    I think Paula is kind of a get what you see kind of person. It was kind of refreshing at first, until a lot of people saw something that they didn't like. Me included. There are just a lot of people (diabetic) that would think if Paula Dean can still eat like that so can I. People will use any excuse and diabetes is not a disease to play around with. She is going to have to weather this storm out. The court case will give us a better idea, because I think the case is more about the treatment of the employees. (and Bubba)

  13. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I'm calling bullshit on this one. Every thread on coaches who have been accused of sexual misconduct with a student has gone exactly as this one has with all sorts of reactions including vehement condemnation.
    Not my impression at all. Lots of victim/accuser blaming going on in those coach threads. None in this thread. But, obviously, we are worlds apart in our viewpoints on this one.

    O-

  14. #334
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    In general, in society, there is a general agreement that use of the 'n' word as a slur by a white person is something to condemn. You won't find many people openly arguing for the other point, even if they do say the word themselves.

    Whereas with sexual abuse there is a nation-wide and very deeply ingrained tendency to blame the victim.

    I don't think the two situations can be compared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    In general, in society, there is a general agreement that use of the 'n' word as a slur by a white person is something to condemn. You won't find many people openly arguing for the other point, even if they do say the word themselves.

    Whereas with sexual abuse there is a nation-wide and very deeply ingrained tendency to blame the victim.

    I don't think the two situations can be compared.
    I think that's a good point, and thank you for presenting it so clearly without the OTT rhetoric. That's what I was looking for ... a response to my original question, which was sociologically focused.

    O-

  16. #336
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    No problem, even though the beginning of my first sentence was an utter mess

  17. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    How many of you could withstand the scrutiny of your entire life history; and the standards you expect - and are imposing - here?
    I don't see anything wrong with expecting people to be non-discriminatory towards their workers, and to create a respectful work environment.

    But I also don't see that Deen's "entire life history" has been scrutinized. No one has said anything about e.g. her abusive first marriage, being a single parent, or struggling with agoraphobia. She managed to deal with all of those very admirably, and to move forward in a positive way, but that doesn't excuse or justify how she has allegedly treated others.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    How many of us are making money selling our personalities and image?

  19. #339
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    I think the real "sociological issue" here isn't how people are contradictory in how they respond to supposedly similar situations since it's pretty clear that most of these situations aren't that comparable and that the "people" who are supposedly being contradictory aren't even the same people. What I think is interesting is how far people will bend themselves into a pretzel to excuse behavior that they normally wouldn't excuse if someone they like or admire does it.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think the real "sociological issue" here isn't how people are contradictory in how they respond to supposedly similar situations since it's pretty clear that most of these situations aren't that comparable and that the "people" who are supposedly being contradictory aren't even the same people. What I think is interesting is how far people will bend themselves into a pretzel to excuse behavior that they normally wouldn't excuse if someone they like or admire does it.
    Is it that or something else? WRT the people on my Facebook feed posting supporting messages for Paula, my guess would be more that they used the N word a few times in their life and wouldn’t want to pilloried for it if it became public knowledge.
    What would Jenny do?

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