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  1. #261

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    I think the biggest issue in the backlash against her is that she handled this very badly. Her apologies came off very staged, none of them sounded sincere, and her appearance on the Today show was more her feeling sorry for herself than for what she did. My honest take on this situation is that she really doesn't clearly understand that her behavior was offensive. She seems to think she is just a good ol' Southern gal an she should be excused for acting like this.

    Personally, I don't feel the least bit sorry for her. As a doctor, she pissed me off with her "oh, now that I have a huge endorsement I'll come out as a diabetic and go all healthy" on people, and based on the data I've seen, I think she considers minorities to be inferior. She did this to herself and when it all broke, she completely mishandled the situation. She hasn't made a truly sincere mea culpa yet. She made her own bed, time to lie in it and deal with the fallout.

  2. #262
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...44500720070905

    Yes, I know that life isn't fair. What irks me is the double or multiple standards applied to a situation. Whoopi didn't use the "cultural" defense to support Paula Deen..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    IMO this is getting out of control. I don't approve racism at all, and don't condone anyone using derogatory terms like the N-word. However, the backlash against Paula Deen has been too severe. It's not like she murdered someone! She is being punished way more severely than her 'crime' (for lack of a better word) deserves.
    How so?

    There's no judgment against her yet in the court case, and her restaurants are drawing large crowds of customers.

    It's true that the Food Network and companies have canceled or suspended their contracts with her, but that was a business decision based on the fact that using her services would reflect badly on them, not because the intent was to punish her. And she's doing pretty badly in the court of public opinion, but if you want to be a media celebrity, that is the risk you take.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I don't know exactly, but I think maybe what was meant was snobby, privileged, elitest.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_A...xon_Protestant (selected quotes below):

    "The term implies the group controls disproportionate social and financial power.[2] The term WASP does not describe every Protestant of English background, but rather a small restricted group whose family wealth and elite connections allow them a degree of privilege held by few others."

    "When the term appears in writing, it usually indicates the author's disapproval of the group's perceived excessive power in society. The hostile tone can be seen in an alternative dictionary: "The WASP culture has been the most aggressive, powerful, and arrogant society in the world for the last thousand years, so it is natural that it should receive a certain amount of warranted criticism."
    I don't see how Martha Stewart fits this description at all. She's not at all privileged - in fact I'd say she's one of the best examples of success resulting from hard work - and continued hard work - that America can offer. Snobby and elitist? Is that why here product lines are sold in Kmart, Home Depot and Macy's? Is that why her entire empire is built on helping people be better cooks and homemakers? Is that why she encourages people to make things and do crafts?

    Sure she's rich and powerful now, but does she flaunt that? No, she continues to promote the simple ideas of cooking, crafts and housekeeping.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I would add to that, her phony Locust Valley Lockjaw.
    Not sure what that is, but I'm guessing you mean the way she seems to have shed the accent she grew up with in NJ. Funny that not long ago there was a thread on FSU where several posters said they had made a serious effort to shed their accents (I believe several were originally from Philadelphia) and others agreed that it's necessary sometimes to get ahead, because employers and others will judge you by your accent. Martha started out modelling and in the financial industry - two industries that can be very stuck on image, and the latter certainly difficult for a woman at that time. Can you really blame her for wanting to improve herself in this way to get ahead?

    Personally I'm happy with my accent and have no plans to change it, but I'm not going to knock those who choose to do so, especially given that one is so often judged on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Have you read the complaint? This lawsuit and the backlash are not about her using the word nigger one time in her life. There - I said (wrote) it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    I think the biggest issue in the backlash against her is that she handled this very badly. Her apologies came off very staged, none of them sounded sincere, and her appearance on the Today show was more her feeling sorry for herself than for what she did. My honest take on this situation is that she really doesn't clearly understand that her behavior was offensive. She seems to think she is just a good ol' Southern gal an she should be excused for acting like this.
    I expect her sponsors and business partners have read the complaint in detail and have based their decisions partly on those allegations, and Paula's statements back in May. But I think the vast majority of people reacting to this situation are basing it entirely on media reports, which have focused almost completely on the n word and other charges of racism (and it's the only thing that Paula is responding to, from what I can tell) - and I think that image and more so the backlash is another big contributor to those business decisions.

    It's also possible that companies are using this as an excuse. Sure, she's still popular and there's a market for her books, shows, magazines and cookware. But some companies might have been thinking it's time to align with healthier lifestyles and a younger generation and celebrities who are real cooks (there are a LOT more of them than there were when Paula first came on the scene thanks to the explosion in food-related programming). Maybe they even had long term contracts with Paula they no longer wanted, and this was the excuse they were waiting for to break them.

    When Tiger got in trouble, some of his big sponsors dropped him. I wondered at the time how many were really outraged by his behaviour, and how many were just relieved to have an excuse to drop a very expensive relationship at a time when corporate budgets were very strained.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Jesse Jackson and "Hymietown"

    Al Sharpton and the Twana Brawley incident.
    (Sharpton now works for NBC)


    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I really do feel badly for her. She answered one question honestly in a deposition and her entire career is over? I don't know A SINGLE PERSON who hasn't used that word at some point in their life.
    I'm black, and know very few people who have used the word.

    But as been said over and over again, this is not about a person using the N word once or twice in their life. The complaint is much more than that.

    I say good riddance, and see no reason to feel sorry for her. She has more money that she'll ever need, and with the growing sympathy, there will be many opportunities for her to make even more. She can throw some Civil War themed parties with the extra time on her hands.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Not sure what that is, but I'm guessing you mean the way she seems to have shed the accent she grew up with in NJ.
    No, I am from and live in NJ. I do not have a "New Jersey" accent. As I've said multiple times, very few people do, outside of small pockets around NY and Philly (and those are distinctly different from each other). Locust Valley lockjaw is an accent from locust Valley NY. It is a flat, drawn out accent, and considered pretentious.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I don't know A SINGLE PERSON who hasn't used that word at some point in their life.
    You need to get out more.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I don't know A SINGLE PERSON who hasn't used that word at some point in their life.
    I have never used that word except in the context of a Conrad novel title, and I know a lot of people who I am 100% sure have never used it.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I don't see how Martha Stewart fits this description at all. She's not at all privileged - in fact I'd say she's one of the best examples of success resulting from hard work - and continued hard work - that America can offer. Snobby and elitist? Is that why here product lines are sold in Kmart, Home Depot and Macy's? Is that why her entire empire is built on helping people be better cooks and homemakers? Is that why she encourages people to make things and do crafts?

    Sure she's rich and powerful now, but does she flaunt that? No, she continues to promote the simple ideas of cooking, crafts and housekeeping.
    Whatever her real story, I don't think most people have an image of her as creating simple down-home food and crafts. I think most people have an image of her as more upscale and fancier as well as colder and snobbier. I see her shows and image as quite different from Paula's.

    But, I think they also are both seen by a lot of people as driven (and possibly not terribly ethical) businesswomen. I agree with you that a lot of Paula's business associates may have used her deposition testimony and resultant bad publicity as just one reason or excuse to sever their relationships. The way she dealt with her diabetes diagnosis turned a lot of people off. And a lot of people just didn't care of her or her food to begin with. I think there are better options out there for cookware endorsements.

    ETA: I know a lot of people who I'm sure have never used the N word. But, I would guess that the frequency with which people use that term varies a lot by region and generation.

  10. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...44500720070905

    Yes, I know that life isn't fair. What irks me is the double or multiple standards applied to a situation. Whoopi didn't use the "cultural" defense to support Paula Deen..
    One person v. the general media reaction to Vick. You can twist it all you want, but Michael Vick was skewered in the press and by the people. It had the combination of violence against animals and a black football player. There's no way he got a pass during that time. However, Vick only got lucky because he is a football player and Americans forgive a lot when it comes to football and winning.

    Whoopi didn't use the cultural defense to defend Deen, but many others have.

  11. #271

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    Here is the official transcript of Paula Deen's testimony
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/148813272/...te-May-17-2013

    Using the N word is really not the problem. This case is about sexual harrassment and a hostile work environment including the use of racial slurs by Paula's brother, Bubba. Paula seems to be in denial that her brother is abusive.

  12. #272
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    Whoopi Goldberg is the person who said "it wasn't rape rape" about Polanski, so I don't really care if she defends someone or not.

    I've never used the term once in my life.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Whoopi Goldberg is the person who said "it wasn't rape rape" about Polanski, so I don't really care if she defends someone or not.

    I've never used the term once in my life.
    But Whoopi does have a forum on The View.

    My point in all of this is that there are multiple standards..and multiple repercussions.

    I don't defend the use of any slur, sexual, racial, mental disabilities and the like.


    And I certainly don't defend harassment, whether it is sexual harassment in The White House or racial harrassment in a restaurant.

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    One person v. the general media reaction to Vick. You can twist it all you want, but Michael Vick was skewered in the press and by the people. It had the combination of violence against animals and a black football player. There's no way he got a pass during that time. However, Vick only got lucky because he is a football player and Americans forgive a lot when it comes to football and winning.

    Whoopi didn't use the cultural defense to defend Deen, but many others have.
    Regarding Vick - I ask anyone who thinks he was judged harshly to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Dogs-Mich...rds=jim+gorant

    He lied over and over to the NFL. He killed dogs by slamming them into the ground. He electrocuted them. He ripped out the breeding female dogs teeth with pliers. And as a former Philadelphia Eagles fan (who stopped being one the day they signed him), I find it appalling that he's writing books called 'Finally Free' and launching clothing lines called 'Redemption'. Trust me, a lot of people did not forgive him. I have friends who got rid of their Eagles season tickets. I've adopted abused dogs, so this is my 'hot button issue'.

    Back to Paula - I wonder if anyone defending her realizes that her non white restaurant staff were not allowed to enter through the front doors and also had to use a different restroom. It's not just using one word 'once', it's human rights violations.

  15. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbell1 View Post
    Regarding Vick - I ask anyone who thinks he was judged harshly to read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Dogs-Mich...rds=jim+gorant

    He lied over and over to the NFL. He killed dogs by slamming them into the ground. He electrocuted them. He ripped out the breeding female dogs teeth with pliers. And as a former Philadelphia Eagles fan (who stopped being one the day they signed him), I find it appalling that he's writing books called 'Finally Free' and launching clothing lines called 'Redemption'. Trust me, a lot of people did not forgive him. I have friends who got rid of their Eagles season tickets. I've adopted abused dogs, so this is my 'hot button issue'.
    And of course there are people who will never give their money to his clothing line and support him in any way. I'm not talking about how he has benefitted NOW or years after his controversy, but how he was treated after the initial reports. People will take the reports as they wish to and maybe some people (especially avid animal lovers) think he wasn't treated harshly and that he got away with it, while others think he was ripped apart by the media and the mainstream. Maybe others think that he was unfairly treated just because they have their own personal agendas. But to say he got away unscathed is re-writing history.

    I think it's too soon to talk about how the public NEVER forgave Paula Deen when only a week has passed. Usually celebrities are ripe for comebacks and the public has short attention spans when it comes to these things. Look at how people are forgiving Deen now (like Bill Mahar who formerly treated her extremely harshly due to her diabetes scandal) and feeling sorry for her because all these "punishments" are just too much. Look at her defenders on Food Network's Facebook page. Let's come back two years from now and see if she has lost every sort of public working opportunity. The only thing that makes me a little doubtful is that Paula Deen hasn't shown she has learned a thing from this other than that she's victimized and that her PR team seems inept.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    IMO this is getting out of control. I don't approve racism at all, and don't condone anyone using derogatory terms like the N-word. However, the backlash against Paula Deen has been too severe. It's not like she murdered someone! She is being punished way more severely than her 'crime' (for lack of a better word) deserves.
    She's a commodity with a specific image, and her sponsors pay her because that image and her popularity get them something in return. When they no longer get value, and she becomes a liability, they drop her. If they're capitalizing on the press's feeding frenzy to get out of their contracts, they're being practical. That's the way business works.

    If in six months or a year or five a TV network or a business decides she's worth something to them, they'll hire her. I'm sure the 700 Club types are already planning her comeback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allskate View Post
    Whatever her real story, I don't think most people have an image of her as creating simple down-home food and crafts. I think most people have an image of her as more upscale and fancier as well as colder and snobbier. I see her shows and image as quite different from Paula's.
    Exactly. She sells a piece of the big house in CT with the acreage and the monster garden, ie "class.". Given her background, it's an idealistic democratic idea that you can aspire to something "better" if you put your brains and energy behind it, and she's going to show you the secrets or introduce you to people who are masters of the craft, people who use their hands. I don't think people are meant to like her specifically, and if she purveyed the mediocrity that Deen does, she's be out on her rump.

    Deen is selling personality, accessibility, and homesiness. If you don't like her, there's not much to get. She doesn't have political connections, like Weiner, or acting/comedy talent, like Baldwin or Morgan, and she doesn't have a skill that someone like Vick has that's shared by an elite few.

    Who expects politicians, actors, and athletes to behave well, anyway?
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 06-29-2013 at 07:25 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Have you read the complaint? This lawsuit and the backlash are not about her using the word nigger one time in her life. There - I said (wrote) it.
    I am well aware the lawsuit is about much more than the supposed use of that word. However, the backlash has most certainly been about that and specifically about the deposition. Her poor apology did not help matters. What do you think the backlash is from? It isn't from the lawsuit in general because news of the lawsuit has been public for well over a year now. I believe there was a thread about it on here (or at least discussion in another thread, this place is famous for thread drift, lol).
    -Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    You need to get out more.
    I live in Louisiana. Keep that in mind.

    And all I said was "used the word." I never said they called someone that or tried to throw it at someone as a slur. Using the word in any context which is how Paula Deen was asked in her deposition.
    -Brian
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    How many people do you know in Louisiana ?

  20. #280

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    I'm from Louisiana and I knew a great many people who have never used that word, even though many of our peers do use it casually (as in the slang fraternal version) not particularly as a slur or a way of describing people when telling a story or something (the way Deen did). Although there are people out there who have said it, I think there are people, even in Louisiana, who can honestly say they've never used it for any reason. I never have, for one.

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