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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    I do agree with Ito at the 92 Olympics, while it wasn't a meltdown by any means, she still fell on the triple axel. That was a kiss of death in 6.0 era especially in the SPs (it also took Harding out of the medal hunt). She then came back in a big way in the LP, too bad it was too late at that point for the gold.
    4th after the SP was not the kiss of death under 6.0 except, I suppose, in ice dance. It meant that a skater no longer controlled their fate with regard to the gold medal, not that the podium was out of reach. In SLC, the 4th placed man and lady after the SP went on to win silver and gold, respectively.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Ito fell on a lutz in the SP not feeling secure in the 3 axel.
    My mistake it was the triple axel in the LP (the 1st one she missed), Harding tried the axel in the SP.

    Ito in 92 she looked very well worn out by the time the Olympics came around, with all the pressure. A fall in the SP was still much worse pre COP than nowadays and made it harder to win unless unless you had alot of oridinal flipping. After the SP Yamaguchi just needed to skate even halfway decent to win since her two main competitors fell.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Speaking of Lu Chen she also had a huge comeback at those same Olympics finishing 11th in the SP to move up to 6th overall while she was still a complete unknown.
    But she had a minor mistake in the SP at 1992 Olympics. She finished 11th due to the lack of political support, IMO.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Speaking of Lu Chen she also had a huge comeback at those same Olympics finishing 11th in the SP to move up to 6th overall while she was still a complete unknown.
    Although unknown to most casual fans, Chen was by no means a complete unknown to the judges at the 1992 Olympics. At Worlds the year before, when she was fourteen years old, she performed a seven-triple FS, which included two triple lutzes, one in combination, as well as a triple toe-triple toe combination, and all the other triples except for the axel. She finished 10th in the FS and 12th overall.

    IMO, if she'd had the political clout to go with her jumps, she would have medalled in Albertville, won Worlds in 1993 and 1994, and possibly won in Lillehammer. As she neared the end of her career, she had difficulty in rotating the jumps, but when she was younger her jumps were beauties too, especially her double axel and triple loop.

    Chen was a wonderful skater who, like Midori Ito, never won as many medals as her performances merited.
    Last edited by orientalplane; 06-22-2013 at 11:49 PM.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Although unknown to most casual fans, Chen was by no means a complete unknown to the judges at the 1992 Olympics. At Worlds the year before, when she was fourteen years old, she performed a seven-triple FS, which included two triple lutzes, one in combination, as well as a triple toe-triple toe combination, and all the other triples except for the axel. She finished 10th in the FS and 12th overall.

    IMO, if she'd had the political clout to go with her jumps, she would have medalled in Albertville, won Worlds in 1993 and 1994, and possibly won in Lillehammer. As she neared the end of her career, she had difficulty in rotating the jumps, but when she was younger her jumps were beauties too, especially her double axel and triple loop.

    Chen was a wonderful skater who, like Midori Ito, never won as many medals as her performances merited.
    And interestingly Chen outskated pretty much everyone at the 92 Olympics, but I don't think the judges were gonna put her over Kerrigan (who did skate a great SP there) and Harding who was still a big star. She did beat Harding at the 92 worlds and Kerrigan at 93 worlds(after they bombed especially Kerrigan in Prague). in the 93-94 season she really came into her own artistically though. Her Sp was the best IMO in terms of artistry. I also don't know the judges gave Baiul such high placements, at this time, for alot of posing and less difficulty.

    I agree her jumps from 91-96 were gorgeous, before she had problems rotating her jumps, when she got older.

    That being said I think she has an impressive medal count- 4 world medals-including one gold and 2 Olympic medals.
    Last edited by Lnt175; 06-23-2013 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #66

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    If Ice Dance is included
    Davis/White had a disastrous OD at the Cup of Russia in 2008, where they placed 8th.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-7sG...8816B3D9882783
    They finished 2nd in the FD and finished 3rd overall
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jswr...882783&index=7
    I'm going to twizzle into a triple axel and spiral out of it.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    It's still too bad she didn't even get to try the long as reigning world silver medallist and former world champ. One of those times where you wish the judges would have made a questionable call and propped her up a tad lol. Poor gal, great comeback the next year though (where she was undermarked in the SP ) I would consider that to be the best skater U-turn [in the right direction] I'd seen in a year.
    Lulu was always robbed during her career. Her presentation marks were always too low for the programs she put out on the ice.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Someone mentioned Elaine Zayak in the 1982 Worlds. I must disagree with this choice because it was not a terrible SP for Elaine. She fell on the triple toe in the SP, the second jump of her combination, and was 10th. That with her 4th in compulsories had her in 7th.

    She skated very well in the LP, but she doubled her triple loop. It was the fact that other skaters did so poorly that gave her the title, e.g. Binder, Wegelius, Kondrashova, etc......
    Usually, huge jumps are made from behind based on the one coming from behind doing really well, and others far out front making mistakes

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    And interestingly Chen outskated pretty much everyone at the 92 Olympics, but I don't think the judges were gonna put her over Kerrigan (who did skate a great SP there) and Harding who was still a big star. She did beat Harding at the 92 worlds and Kerrigan at 93 worlds(after they bombed especially Kerrigan in Prague). in the 93-94 season she really came into her own artistically though. Her Sp was the best IMO in terms of artistry. I also don't know the judges gave Baiul such high placements, at this time, for alot of posing and less difficulty.

    I agree her jumps from 91-96 were gorgeous, before she had problems rotating her jumps, when she got older.

    That being said I think she has an impressive medal count- 4 world medals-including one gold and 2 Olympic medals.
    At the 92 Olympics I had Chen being 8th in the short but 3rd in the long. I had Kerrigan 2nd in the short but 6th in the long. I had Harding 4th in the short but 4th in the long. I dont know what position she would have finished overall in that case, maybe about 4th.

    I would have had Bonaly or Chen winning the 93 Worlds, with the other second, and Baiul bronze.

    At the 94 Olympics Kerrigan deserved gold, Chen silver, and Sato bronze.

    At the 94 Worlds Chen did not skate so could not win.

    At the 92 Worlds Chen deserved silver.

    So I agree she was underplaced often but the only events she didnt win she deserved to win were the 96 Worlds and maybe (but maybe not because of Bonaly) 93 Worlds. She also did not deserve her Olympic bronze in 1998 so she was sometimes overmarked too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    I had Harding 4th in the short but 4th in the long. I dont know what position she would have finished overall in that case, maybe about 4th.
    Do you do stand-up as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    At the 94 Worlds Chen did not skate so could not win.
    That is indeed hard to argue with; however you get no extra points for the last four words.

    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    She also did not deserve her Olympic bronze in 1998 so she was sometimes overmarked too.
    Wanna fight about it? I'll have you know I missed the Team GB women's boxing at London 2012 by a mere whisker.
    Last edited by orientalplane; 06-25-2013 at 03:00 PM.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Well, Lu had several OMISSIONS in her program, not FAILURES. For example, she did a single axel instead of a double. This is an OMISSION, a much more serious error than a fall. It is like she didn't do any jump. Another example was that she did a single lutz out of no footwork, and I believe the requirement was a triple or double preceeded by steps. This is another OMISSION, as opposed to a failure. As her combination, she did a very easy triple toe-double toe; as opposed to the top skaters doing 3lutz and 3 loops. Her base mark was VERY LOW.

    I'm sorry but I remember the rules differently. You are right Chen's easy jumb combo hurt her base mark, but she didn't have any "omissions". And omission is when you don't even try to do an element. Singling the double axel is not an omission, it's a 0.4 deduction for having less than required revolutions. Falling on an element was also a 0.4 deduction. Same goes for singling the lutz.

    And I don't know if Chen was unfairly placed too low at the 1997 Worlds (I don't remember the competition well enough), but I definitely think that she should NOT have gotten that Bronze Medal in Nagano. Most her her jumps were a quarter or half of revolution short (and her last toe even more than that :runs and should have lowered her first mark more than enough so that Slutskaya and Butyrskaya should have beaten her in the LP, even with Chen's higher presentation marks.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post

    Yuka Sato at the 1994 Olympics. After a fall in the SP she was in 7th place but she skated a great LP. Although she did not medal there, she may have set herself up to win the world title the following month.

    Just for the record, Yuka did not fall in the SP, she singled the lutz on her planned jump combination.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Lulu was always robbed during her career. Her presentation marks were always too low for the programs she put out on the ice.
    Agree and funny because Christina Gao is similarly robbed in the scores, at least at US Nationals, and her skating and appearance are very similar to that of Lu Chen....hmmm

  14. #74

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    haven' seen this result, sorry if it's been mentioned before:

    miki ando, worlds 2010: 11th in short, 3rd in fs, overall4th; if you ask me: robbed the bronze.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeschke View Post
    haven' seen this result, sorry if it's been mentioned before:

    miki ando, worlds 2010: 11th in short, 3rd in fs, overall4th; if you ask me: robbed the bronze.
    Yes, any of Ando, Kostner or Phaneuf should've been ahead of Blahpisto

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    Phaneuf was totally robbed of the bronze at those Worlds. Such a shame as I knew even then she was never going to get another shot. The perfect storm of headcase Phaneuf skating perfectly with 7 triples and such a poor event was never going to happen again.

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