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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Anyway, I still consider Pina the best and most interesting dance program of the past few years
    yeah! go s/s. if there's no gold in pairs, do the ice dance competition

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Candeloro skated a folk OD?
    Braveheart. I don't even know if he's the first to wear a kilt, but I was totally and when I saw it... it was totally unexpected and voidy.

    I think creativity in skating can take more than one form - it can be creativity of movement, of elements (e.g. lifts), of concepts, of presentation, in terms of music chosen and interpreted, and more. Obviously not all fans will value each of these forms of creativity equally - in my case, for instance, I really don't care what sort of pretzel-like position a skater can get herself into during a lift. I am shallow and just want lifts that look pretty.
    That's fair and reasonable.

    The Kerrs skated to Muse twice, with different concepts each time. I can't recall anyone skating to Muse in competition before them; correct me if I'm wrong. They skated to Linkin Park, they had that Aliens program, The Last of the Mohicans, and The Matrix when it was still fairly original to skate to it.
    From my POV, they skated to Enigma, Muse, Linkin Park, and Muse as their last four FDs in a row, and all of them run together for me thematically and choreographically (YMMV of course), so I always found it confounding that they in particular are constantly held up as an example of creativity. Doing that type of FD once or twice, ok, but I felt they found a niche and then plugged away at it year after year, and it could no longer be considered voidy or fresh at that point. But I think you are right that they (and Carron & Jost that season) were the first to use Muse. The alien FD was very reminiscent of G&P's 92 FD. They also had FDs to the Backstreet Boys and Nsync, again strange that someone would choose a boyband theme twice within the space of a few years. I really liked their Matrix. Many other skaters used it in 2004 (Joubert of course, Zaretskis, Zivanonic, Kovalevsky, Ponsero - not all of them used Clubbed to Death IIRC, but Kazakova & Dmitriev had popularized it already)... so yeah, they weren't really copying, it was one of those things where everyone collectively had the same idea. Matrix really isn't my issue though, it's more their last couple of FDs.

    ITA with your other post about S&S' Pina - both a fantastic LP in and of itself, and then a standout in a collection of very diverse performances (Bollywood, Cirque, Adagio, Out of Africa, Pink Panther, Russian folk, etc), each one of which reflected the style very well. I've often said they put most ice dancers to shame.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Contemporary and modern are, in fact, two different styles of dance that are not interchangeable or synonymous with each other.
    On paper maybe. But during my training, I've had classes in France, Germany and the US and while one country called something modern dance the other called the exact same thing contemporary dance and vice versa. And before you suggest that the schools may not have known better, the classes were headed by nationally recognized choreographers and/or dancers. So, the vocabulary may be its own, but the style is not and it's not defined enough so that classes cannot be completely different from country to country or even instructor to instructor.
    I'd actually go as far as to say that classical ballet is the only strictly defined form of dance and the only form of dance from which you can expect to know what to expect when taking class whether you go take class in Germany, France, the US or anywhere else in the world.

    gkelly, thanks for the link.
    Last edited by ballettmaus; 06-20-2013 at 01:19 AM.

  4. #124

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    Naaah. They won't come back. I sure think Gwendal has other things to do

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I don't get what the angst is over re-using material. One of the strengths of the dance world is that except for improv, almost any piece can be performed by different companies, different casts, even different genders, and half the fun is comparing them. (They get paid royalties when pieces are revived, and they can even send someone who is also paid to teach the works without showing up at all.
    Absolutely but I felt that those who praised Zhiganshina/Gazsi's free dance of last season for being creative and original had the theme in mind rather than the choreography/movement because I haven't seen any comment from them along the lines of "You know, I watched tons of zombie dances and I have to say that Averbukh's version is so fresh and new in the world of dancing." Averbukh has the merit of being the first to bring the zombie theme to ice dancing but copying the concept from others might not be the correct definition of creativity and originality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPzcsdlOB7g

    You'd think, though, if Gailhauguet approached them before Turin and decided they weren't ready that he'd have asked them for Vancouver in time for them to be ready, or at least as soon as he knew Delobel was pregnant, which was sooner before Vancouver than Sochi is now.
    And you would think that someone who hates the CoP would never want to come back and compete under a system that killed ice dancing.

  6. #126

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    I think Marina was also pregnant before Vancouver...

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by zotza View Post
    I think Marina was also pregnant before Vancouver...
    But so was Delobel...

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    Absolutely but I felt that those who praised Zhiganshina/Gazsi's free dance of last season for being creative and original had the theme in mind rather than the choreography/movement because I haven't seen any comment from them along the lines of "You know, I watched tons of zombie dances and I have to say that Averbukh's version is so fresh and new in the world of dancing." Averbukh has the merit of being the first to bring the zombie theme to ice dancing but copying the concept from others might not be the correct definition of creativity and originality.
    The interpretation was spot on and they embodied the movement a lot better than other interpreters I've seen, and I would define this as creative. Averbukh might not have made up the concept or movement, but it had to be translated to the ice, and it was a creative insight to understand that it could be done and how it could be done.

    I don't see an issue with calling something that's rarely been done or, especially in this case, done nearly as well in Ice Dance or skating in general, "original," because the context is original for Ice Dance. I would call Delobel/Schoenfelder's 2006 Mambo SD original, even though the street dance on which it's based has been around for a long while. There's almost no original movement in skating aside from the use of inner and outer edges and that was probably pre-dated by using the edges in skiing; the ability to glide for longer duration and in long arcs and circles is an extension of what dancers have done on solid surfaces for a long time or were aided by mechanical means.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I'm loving Zhulin's reaction: "If she's returning to big competition, I better start practicing too."
    My coach said the same thing.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  10. #130
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    I don't get what the angst is over re-using material. One of the strengths of the dance world is that except for improv, almost any piece can be performed by different companies, different casts, even different genders, and half the fun is comparing them. (They get paid royalties when pieces are revived, and they can even send someone who is also paid to teach the works without showing up at all.)
    Even after the choreographer has died, it is very traditional in ballet for a dancer he taught to teach the next generation of dancers how the choreographer wanted a piece performed. I remember a TV special once showing Baryshnikov teaching anther dancer a Balanchine piece, and he would correct the guy on how to move an arm or the tilt of his head with "Mr. B said..."

    I have often thought it sad that skating choreo it treated like a throw-away commodity. Reusing someone else's old program wouldn't really work competitively, but I think it would be really interesting to select some iconic programs and have the choreographer or skaters work with some of today's skaters to recreate it for an exhibition or TV special.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    My coach said the same thing.
    Who would Zhulin skate with? Usova? Grisuk? Navka? Anissina? Ilynikh?
    Should I make a poll?

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
    Who would Zhulin skate with? Usova? Grisuk? Navka? Anissina? Ilynikh?
    Should I make a poll?
    No, sell it as a reality show.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    No, sell it as a reality show.
    Hmmm, Sort of like the bachelor? But I'd imagine that instead of a rose they'd get a headband. I'd so watch that

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    Hmmm, Sort of like the bachelor? But I'd imagine that instead of a rose they'd get a headband. I'd so watch that
    So the host would be Tatiana Navka?

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    Hmmm, Sort of like the bachelor? But I'd imagine that instead of a rose they'd get a headband. I'd so watch that
    Is there anyone on FSU who wouldn't? It would be truly great television.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    Hmmm, Sort of like the bachelor? But I'd imagine that instead of a rose they'd get a headband. I'd so watch that
    Each week, the loser would be told "I'm sorry, you've been Zambonied"

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Each week, the loser would be told "I'm sorry, you've been Zambonied"
    Or whoever is being eliminated each week would just be hunted down by Skary Babs, then be given the death glare! Now that would be an epic elimination

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Each week, the loser would be told "I'm sorry, you've been Zambonied"
    With Zhulin, I'm sure he'll put the emphasis on "bone"-ied.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Each week, the loser would be told "I'm sorry, you've been Zambonied"
    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    Or whoever is being eliminated each week would just be hunted down by Skary Babs, then be given the death glare! Now that would be an epic elimination

  20. #140

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    It's all gone quiet
    Hope Anissina is training hard

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