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  1. #41

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    There is no point comparing programs from different eras.
    That makes this "comeback" even more bizarre. Anissina&Peizerat were one of the most exciting teams of their era. But their era ended some time ago.
    The end.
    As of March 2013 - no longer scared of TAHbKA or Andrey aka Pushkin

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I agree how about trying to do whole programs without having every single second taken up by required technical elements! Ice dance used to be much more creatively harder!
    But that would be like replacing quads with triples in singles so they could do more choreography.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    But that would be like replacing quads with triples in singles so they could do more choreography.
    I have no problem with that.

  4. #44
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    Speaking of here's a recent profile in the New York Times.

    Perhaps he and Marina are already "planning" Sochi?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nours View Post
    Don't be angry at me V/M fans, I took them as an exemple because they are better than almost all the other teams in this area and the best overall dancers of today.
    But I am angry, because this:
    would be a challenge too high given V/M's everything but spanish 2010 OD aka "show me how wonderful skaters you are with ramdom music in the background
    is . I can't think of much better music interpretators than V/M among ice dancers today. Certainly not I/K. That's one of the things that I love about V/M the most, and one of the reasons why I am a fan.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    But I am angry, because this:is . I can't think of much better music interpretators than V/M among ice dancers today. Certainly not I/K. That's one of the things that I love about V/M the most, and one of the reasons why I am a fan.
    This to me is too. Their "flamenco" was only by name. If you want a true flamenco interpretation, watch A/P 2002 OD or P/B 2008 OD. V/M's simply is not at all.
    Also, what did I/K in all three phases of their 2010 WJ title easily trash anything V/M did interpretation-wise. Their CD and FD there particulary were mesmerizing. That's why I put them in my previous post. She has the kind of fire you can't learn, as good as you can be otherwise. V/M always seem faking next to her ; back to V/M 2010 OD. Sadly since then, the russians had veeery poor material (first year as senior was hard on them mentally I'd say then, thanks Morozov once more), it's a shame really because they could be incredible and already world champion material by now - if no technical mistake obviously.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nours View Post
    This to me is too. Their "flamenco" was only by name. If you want a true flamenco interpretation, watch A/P 2002 OD or P/B 2008 OD. V/M's simply is not at all.
    Also, what did I/K in all three phases of their 2010 WJ title easily trash anything V/M did interpretation-wise. Their CD and FD there particulary were mesmerizing. That's why I put them in my previous post. She has the kind of fire you can't learn, as good as you can be otherwise. V/M always seem faking next to her ; back to V/M 2010 OD. Sadly since then, the russians had veeery poor material (first year as senior was hard on them mentally I'd say then, thanks Morozov once more), it's a shame really because they could be incredible and already world champion material by now - if no technical mistake obviously.
    I guess that is why I & K look up to both V & M!!!!
    What are you smoking here?

  8. #48

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    If Torvill and Dean can come back after 10 years of competing to win Olympic bronze... there is always a chance for A&P to medal if they work hard enough and grasp the new system to their benefit. She is a tough cookie so I could see her work ethic working to their favour.

    And as for Nours- Zhulin, Tarasova, Dean all stated how good V&M are. I will take their opinion over yours anyday.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    If Torvill and Dean can come back after 10 years of competing to win Olympic bronze... there is always a chance for A&P to medal if they work hard enough and grasp the new system to their benefit. She is a tough cookie so I could see her work ethic working to their favour.

    And as for Nours- Zhulin, Tarasova, Dean all stated how good V&M are. I will take their opinion over yours anyday.
    That is true, but I feel like Ice Dance has changed a lot more between 2002 and 2014 than it did during 1984 and 1994 (mainly because of IJS).

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    If Torvill and Dean can come back after 10 years of competing to win Olympic bronze... there is always a chance for A&P to medal if they work hard enough and grasp the new system to their benefit. She is a tough cookie so I could see her work ethic working to their favour.
    That's an unfortunate comparison because T&D got royally jobbed at the Olympics (IMHO anyway). I'm not sure that anyone would want to put in that sort of effort just to get ripped off at the end of it all.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  11. #51
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    Has any singles skater or team ever come back 4+ years after retirement and matched or bettered their previous Olympic result? I recall Boitano and Witt both finishing well below their former heights when they came back in 1994.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Has any singles skater or team ever come back 4+ years after retirement and matched or bettered their previous Olympic result? I recall Boitano and Witt both finishing well below their former heights when they came back in 1994.
    Gordeeva/Grinkov

  13. #53

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    Gordeeva & Grinkov matched by winning both times.

    Ice Dance has advanced but the core factors haven't changed... interpretation, edges, line, unison, complex footwork are all still key components of which A&P excelled. Just because they haven't competed in this new judging system doesn't mean they aren't fully competent to get the intricacies of this new system down.

    I think the most important thing they can do is get their butts on the ice and go through the compulsory dances and work with ice dance experts to maximize their scoring potential for the Short dance and the free. They didn't have to mathmatically go over their programs before but now they have to.

    As for T&D, the subjectivity of ice dance is there. Their programs were very entertaining but I could see an argument for G&P winning and them. If G&P had done their World's performance at the Olympics in 1994 then I would believe in an outcry. But then I am one of very few that thought G&P deserved 1st in the freedance in Lillehammer.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  14. #54
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    I find it pretty much pointless to debate historic ice dance results considering what we now know (always suspected of course) about corrupt judging.

    More recently, FP&M and D&V came back for the 2006 Olys after a 4 year break and the implementation of CoP, and both dropped in the standings from their 2002 results.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    But then I am one of very few that thought G&P deserved 1st in the freedance in Lillehammer.
    I specifically remember watching the free dance live in the arena, both in practice and during the competition: After Torvill/Dean skated I thought to myself "Just show me something that can beat that." And then G&P skated, and my thought was "OK, you showed me." They owned the ice that much more.

    The real question for me was why didn't T&D finish second, ahead of Usova/Zhulin, since they were noticeably faster. Analyzing the programs on video after the fact, I could see technical reasons why. And then there was that lift deduction. So I could see it going either way.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nours View Post
    This to me is too. Their "flamenco" was only by name. If you want a true flamenco interpretation, watch A/P 2002 OD or P/B 2008 OD. V/M's simply is not at all.
    Also, what did I/K in all three phases of their 2010 WJ title easily trash anything V/M did interpretation-wise. Their CD and FD there particulary were mesmerizing. That's why I put them in my previous post. She has the kind of fire you can't learn, as good as you can be otherwise. V/M always seem faking next to her ; back to V/M 2010 OD. Sadly since then, the russians had veeery poor material (first year as senior was hard on them mentally I'd say then, thanks Morozov once more), it's a shame really because they could be incredible and already world champion material by now - if no technical mistake obviously.
    I didn't mean their 'Flamenco'. But, to me, music interpretation is not just dancing/moving in the style of the given music. There is so much music used in ice dancing and figure skating in general that doesn't go together with a particular genre of dance. So, for me, interpreting the music first of all means expressing and accentuating it's nuances with movements, skating elements, expression (although expression certainly can't be the sole means of interpretation, otherwise it's not a skating program anymore), and so on. In my opinion, Virtue/Moir are very good at that. The choreography that they are given is another thing - choreography is not exactly the same as interpretation. Or, rather, it's the choreographer's interpretation of the music, not the skater's (if the skaters themselves are not also choreographers).

    By the way, I've seen A/P's and P/B's flamencos, love them, and know that they are more "flamenco" than Virtue/Moir's OD. Which doesn't change my opinion about them.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 06-17-2013 at 10:33 PM.

  17. #57

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    F-P&M tanked at Turino because they fell and fell hard in the original dance. They were in 1st after the Compulsory. Their Freedance was a jambled mess. So sloppy and barely executed. They also had a deduction in the free if I remember correctly.

    D&V were sloppy in their compulsory, fell hard in the original dance and I think they were the only team with a 3 point deduction in that portion of the competition. Their freedance was noticeably better which bumped them up in the rankings.

    They finished in 4th at World's a month and a bit later which is a really good finish as there was an argument that they could have been on the podium their freednace at World's was amazing.

    They tanked because they made mistakes at the Olympics.They never got called out like that under the old system. F-P&M proved that if you delivered you were rewarded aka being first at the Olympics after the compulsory dance. They had they ability to score points but errored and got penalized for it. Fair IMHO.
    Last edited by Twilight1; 06-17-2013 at 11:22 PM.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    If Torvill and Dean can come back after 10 years of competing to win Olympic bronze... there is always a chance for A&P to medal if they work hard enough and grasp the new system to their benefit. She is a tough cookie so I could see her work ethic working to their favour.

    And as for Nours- Zhulin, Tarasova, Dean all stated how good V&M are. I will take their opinion over yours anyday.
    I'm not saying they aren't good, even said previously they are the best overall competing, by far - even though I can see why D/W were able to beat them at various competitions, rules and mistakes mainly IMO.
    I'm just saying they aren't good at interpretation compares to dancers from the past, still being one of the best of their era on this particular point. You can watch any of their CDs to convice yourself ; somebody said it's pointless to compare programs from different eras, I agree except for CDs for obvious reasons.
    It only shows how bad almost all the others are, I repeat I took them as an EXEMPLE, nothing personal against them here. Should have done it with Brobova Soloviev or the Shibutanis, people wouldn't have even noticed it. The reason is the rules anyway don't give credit to interpretation anymore, which is sad/mad as shows the empty crowds. Margaglio himself pointed it in a recent interview, if you don't like what I'm saying at least give credit to him. I know it's hard to their fans to critize V/M as all they do is virtually becoming golden here. Perhaps they poo gold too, somebody should ask them (yeah, trash me baby). Also saying their flamenco has no flamenco flavour. That's not the same as to say they aren't good.

  19. #59
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    I will say if I/K's interpretation is stronger than V/M's in the 2009/2010 season programs, then I need to watch another sport because I consider I/K's FD that season to be the single worst thing I've ever seen in figure skating.

  20. #60
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    I shared my 2 cents on this in my blog yesterday:

    http://skateguard1.blogspot.ca/2013/...k-fact-or.html

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