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  1. #221

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    Few of the top junior teams at US Nationals in recent years had success as Seniors with the same partner. The Shibs are an exception. So many split right before going Senior or a season or two after - Lichtman/Copely, Chock/Zuerlin, Bonacorsi/Mager, Gilles/Donohue, Tibbetts/Brubaker, Olson/Cowan come to mind.

  2. #222
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    The ones who medalled at worlds stuck with their partners they went to jr worlds with -- D/W, Belbin/Agosto, Shibs.

  3. #223
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    Fingers crossed for the current crops of US junior teams. Just sticking together through the junior career is an impressive achievement nowadays.

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Fingers crossed for the current crops of US junior teams. Just sticking together through the junior career is an impressive achievement nowadays.
    It's also kind of interesting to me how height differences (or similarities) don't really seem to hurt a team as Juniors the same way it does when they move to Seniors. Looking at the current Juniors, I could see the height similarities of Hawayek/Baker and Parsons/Parsons hurting them when they move up in a way that it isn't really now.

  5. #225

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    According to their ISU bio, Jean Luc is 10 cm taller than Kaitlin.
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00054329.htm
    Maxim Staviski was only 8 cm taller than Albena Denkova, and they are 2 time World Champs. The small height difference did not hurt them particularly at the senior level
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00000448.htm

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    According to their ISU bio, Jean Luc is 10 cm taller than Kaitlin.
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00054329.htm
    Maxim Staviski was only 8 cm taller than Albena Denkova, and they are 2 time World Champs. The small height difference did not hurt them particularly at the senior level
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00000448.htm
    However, the rule has changed since then. The lifts are more demanding and acrobatic. The perfect female partner is Meryl, small frame with strong core body. It's harder for taller or larger frame female partner to perform these demanding lifts nowadays. We also see more "neck injury" in male partner now due to these lifts. The larger height difference helps in performing these acrobatic lifts. It will be interesting to see how H/B, P/P do in the next few years. and also A/E.

  7. #227
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    I have disliked the way lifts are done for several seasons. The current rules are very bad for the athletes and the aesthetics of ice dancing.

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    Totally agree. Some teams still managed to get good scores despite performing less acrobatic lifts, e.g. H/D, W/P, A/E. D/W's lifts were more physical demanding on both skaters. D/W got my thumb up for making those difficult lifts looked easy, effortless and sort of aesthetics (except the one that she was upside down in FD).

  9. #229

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    That's the first upside down lift they've done. And they got some flak for not doing as acrobatic lifts as V&M from time to time, and for doing the four short lift option, rather than the 2 short lift/1 combo lift option. So it's not surprising in an Olympic year that they've added an upside down combo lift.

    P&B, BTW, are the long time king & queen of upside down lifts, going back to their cotton ball costume Four Seasons program.

    I'm hoping the D&W upside down lift will look more aesthetic by Skate America, or failing that, by Nationals.

  10. #230
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    All the acrobatic lifts around the male partner's neck and up and down his back can't be healthy, especially for younger skaters whose bodies are still growing and injuries can leave lifelong implications. I wish ISU weren't looking to the NFL as the role model. For a few years in the 90s the dance rules favored skating and discouraged too many lifts. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

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    Regarding Charlotte Lichtman, she was good! I know she tried to find a suitable partner and was unable to. She is now a full time junior at the University of Michigan.

  12. #232
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    With the JGP season completed (except for the Final), I thought I would do a recap. I listed the teams in order of their GP placement and provided links to their highest scored performances:

    Hawayek/Baker 144.84 at Baltic Cup
    SD: 62.58 (33.99 + 28.59), 1QS4, 2QS3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8odtvQhgo10
    FD: 82.26 (38.78 +43.48) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyagSRE5gEg

    McNamara/Carpenter 137.97 at Minsk
    SD: 56.98 (31.00 + 25.98), 1QS2, 2QS3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOan0l4KwEE
    FD: 80.99 (40.80 + 40.19) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUHBV1Wu5R4

    Parsons/Parsons 134.73 at Czech Skate
    SD: 59.04 (33.29 + 27.25), 1QS4, 2QS4, 1 pt ext. lift ded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_2c930iiJU
    FD: 75.19 (33.94 + 41.25) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyc3SZ68Cyo

    Moore/Klaber 127.74 at Talinn
    SD: 53.79 (29.21 + 24.58),1QS3, 2QS2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYUBlM_u2O4
    FD: 73.95 (3.36 +38.59) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akRNJpQo42Y

    Pogrebinsky/Godis 122.92 at Baltic Cup
    SD: 50.60 (28.21 + 22.39), 1QS2, 2QS2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDPFqDMLKQA
    FD: 72.32 (37.81 + 34.51) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJSwVPsBIqA

    Lewis/Bye 104.32 at Mexico
    SD: 42.50 (23.49 + 19.01), 1QS3, 2QS2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrLufEWVHZw
    FD: 61.82 (31.57 + 31.25), 1 pt lift ded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU3vtn184TU

    Patsis/Johnson 98.93 at Minsk
    SD: 41.96 (21.10 + 20.86) 1QS2, 2QS1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUqKj6X9x4U
    FD: 56.97 (26.70 + 31.27), 1 pt. ext. lift ded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3I1Nz-WvRE
    Last edited by semogal; 10-14-2013 at 04:49 PM.

  13. #233
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    ^^ Thank you for compiling the above vids.
    I hope the three JGPF qualified teams do well at the finals.

  14. #234

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    McNamara Carpenter-their total was not 187.97 at Minski, it was 137.97. And good luck to the qualifying teams

    semogal, thanks so much for listing the videos!

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Few of the top junior teams at US Nationals in recent years had success as Seniors with the same partner. The Shibs are an exception. So many split right before going Senior or a season or two after - Lichtman/Copely, Chock/Zuerlin, Bonacorsi/Mager, Gilles/Donohue, Tibbetts/Brubaker, Olson/Cowan come to mind.
    What are the factors that contribute to the Jr teams not staying together? Many of the above mentioned teams have had international success on the Jr level. Is it that they expect immediate results at the Sr level as well? There is longevity in dance, and because the very top teams, ie., those that medal at the Olympics and Worlds, etc....tend to be older in age and experience, have the Jr teams lost their patience , as a team, to fulfill their potential as a team, and put in the time to achieve Sr level success?

  16. #236
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    I made the change. Sorry for the goof. I hope that by posting their performances together more people will watch our very talented US Ice Dancers!

  17. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    What are the factors that contribute to the Jr teams not staying together?
    All sorts of reasons. I can't speak for specific teams -- especially because even if they made reasons public, there might have been other reasons that they didn't choose to share.

    Off the top of my head:

    No longer a good physical match, in the look of the team (which can be overcome but may have negative effects on results) or in the safety -- for both partners -- of executing lifts and other difficult moves needed for competitive success at the next level

    Changing levels of commitment -- the transition from junior to senior is often the time when one partner decides to make college a priority, which means either quitting entirely or cutting back on training just when the other partner wants to train even harder

    Changing financial circumstances that don't allow one partner to train at the level the other would like

    Injury, eating disorder, or other personal issues that require one partner to take significant time off, and the other partner chooses to move on

    Persistent conflicts between the partners, between one partner and the coach while the other remains loyal, between a parent and the coach, or between the two sets of parents

    Some conflicts can be resolved, but if there are fundamental differences in work ethic or disagreements about where to train, which coach/choreographer/music to use, which country to represent, etc., it may be counterproductive to stay together when the goals no longer match

  18. #238
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    Hawayek/Baker FD

    My favorite FD's this season from US: 1.Davis/White 2.Hubbell/Donohue 3.Hawayek/Baker

  19. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliasJohnDoe View Post
    Hawayek/Baker FD

    My favorite FD's this season from US: 1.Davis/White 2.Hubbell/Donohue 3.Hawayek/Baker
    My top three as well. Love them all!
    MERYL DAVIS AND CHARLIE WHITE - 2014 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    All the acrobatic lifts around the male partner's neck and up and down his back can't be healthy, especially for younger skaters whose bodies are still growing and injuries can leave lifelong implications. I wish ISU weren't looking to the NFL as the role model. For a few years in the 90s the dance rules favored skating and discouraged too many lifts. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.
    Agree with you on this. The number of neck injuries, likely tied to the kind of lifts we are seeing more and more of (where the girl is literally twirling like a baton around the guy's head and neck) seems directly correlated with this, and I'm not loving watching either the lifts or this injury phenomenon

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