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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie S View Post
    Did Weaver and U.S. partner medal on the JGP, though?
    No, Weaver/Clavey finished 5th in both JGPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    K/G-S do not have the results to be held for more than two seasons, which USFS made into 2+ for Piper Gilles, by those rules. I've been asking for years if the rules have been changed or updated, but never got an answer.
    I don't believe USFS' Athlete Release Policy is a public document. It exists, though, because USFS' Board of Directors in their July 8, 2013 Report of Action published on the USFS site:
    "APPROVED an amendment to the U.S. Figure Skating Athlete Release Policy as presented."
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-02-2013 at 05:49 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie S View Post
    I remember Augie Hill also had to sit out a year (or two?) at around the same time when he wanted to compete for Canada b/c he'd won a medal on the JGP. If Weaver and partner didn't medal, then that could explain her quick release.
    I can't remember all of the details anymore, but I think USFS was holding Hill for 3 or 4 years. He skated with Lauren Senft in the 2007-08 season and although they could compete in domestic Canadian competitions, I don't think he had been released from USFS to skate internationally for Canada. Hill's last JGP for the US was in 2005 (though his only JGP medal was in 2003), so the hold on him was over 2 years.

    Siobhan Karam & Kevin O'Keefe also teamed up in 2007. O'Keefe was a former JGP competitor for the US, but his last JGP was in 2003, so they were able to compete internationally for Canada in fall 2007.

    I believe USFS is currently holding Whitney Miller, who is now skating with Shane Firus in Vancouver. Based on summer results, it seems that they've been passed over for a JGP assignment from Skate Canada, so I'm assuming that it's an issue of release. Miller skated with Kyle MacMillan at one JGP last year, they were 10th. Their JGP (Austria) was Sept 12-15 last year, so they'd be eligible for one of the later JGPs if USFS releases her.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I don't believe USFS' Athlete Release Policy is a public document. It exists, though, because USFS' Board of Directors in their July 8, 2013 Report of Action published on the USFS site:
    "APPROVED an amendment to the U.S. Figure Skating Athlete Release Policy as presented."
    Too bad USFS isn't required to have more transparency, but the document has to be available to at least the athletes involved. I would love to know what it said and how it has been amended. Anyone?

    This topic is quite interesting--thanks to everyone for providing some historical notes. It does seem that K/G-S are in a different situation and at a different point in their career, though.

  4. #144
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    Having seen them at BC Summerskate, normally, I wouldn't think it would be horrible for Miller and Firus to concentrate on jelling as a team this season before making their JGP debut, but he'll be 20 next February, and with the age changes for next season, he will age out of juniors. Unless they get a junior or senior B next winter or spring, they'll have no international experience when they're forced to skate senior next season. (The age rules apply to "international competitions," not just ISU events.)

    Miller turns 15 tomorrow. I didn't realize she was that young, and she could still grow.

    On the US senior dance topic, I'm grateful to an FSUer who PMed me to say that in 2010, the US Olympic alternates Navarro/Bommentre did not go to 4C's, but went to 2010 Worlds (in place of Belbin/Agosto in that case). While either S/S or H/D would be the strong favorites for the 4C's title (and $30K prize money), if USFS keeps the pewter medalists home again to train in case, and if Canada also doesn't send its Olympic team to 4C's like in 2010, that will open up a great opportunity for US #7 at 4C's, which could be the difference between having a SB for next year and not.

    I'm guessing US #6-7 don't have a realistic shot at the podium, especially in Dance, and with scores tending to rise at championships, an SB at 4C's would be more valuable than an SB at a GP. A GP spot or Nebelhorn would be most important for US #5, K/G-S, an outside podium shot barring disaster, as a chance for USFS to see how a top-level international panel would score them after longer with Shpilband, particularly in PCS and levels, and they're the ones who don't have one. Even if Aldridge/Eaton aren't ready for CoC, it would take at least two other withdrawals for K/G-S to even move into the Top Five group and be eligible to be picked as an alternate. I wish H/D would be swapped for SLC, with K/G-S moved up from S(ub) at Nebelhorn, but it won't happen.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 09-02-2013 at 08:15 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I'm guessing US #6-7 don't have a realistic shot at the podium, especially in Dance, and with scores tending to rise at championships, an SB at 4C's would be more valuable than an SB at a GP. A GP spot or Nebelhorn would be most important for US #5, K/G-S, an outside podium shot barring disaster, as a chance for USFS to see how a top-level international panel would score them after longer with Shpilband, particularly in PCS and levels, and they're the ones who don't have one. Even if Aldridge/Eaton aren't ready for CoC, it would take at least two other withdrawals for K/G-S to even move into the Top Five group and be eligible to be picked as an alternate. I wish H/D would be swapped for SLC, with K/G-S moved up from S(ub) at Nebelhorn, but it won't happen.
    kwanfan1818, you never seem to amaze me with your well-thought out analyses and posts! Too bad you are not a decision maker

    I didn't even think about that swap and, of course, you are right that it's not going to happen, particularly at this late date. It would definitely have been a bit of an equalizer, considering that H/D now have three chances to post SB scores before the end of season competitions and, IIRC, they needed their second GP last season to move up in the SB rankings. Makes me wonder further about what is driving these decisions. With K/G-S unlikely to repeat a medal at SLC considering the top teams on the roster, I just hope they are healthy and perform well since this is their only international assignment.

    On another note, is the US actually limited to one entry for Nebelhorn and Finlandia or is this their choice? I thought at least one more team was sent to each at different times in the past.

  6. #146
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    For Nebelhorn, in any year but where it's the Olympic qualifier, any country with a team in the Top 10 from the previous year can send two couples. (Chock/Bates won last year.) Although the wording in the Nebelhorn announcement is not specific, it says that the field will be limited to 24 "in principle," and because this is an Olympic qualifying year:

    1. The field can be larger if there are more countries that need to qualify.
    2. All countries that need to qualify can send a maximum of one, even countries in the Top 10 at 2012 Nebelhorn (SUI, ESP, CZE).
    3. If there's enough room, 2012 Top 10 countries that don't need to qualify for the Olympics can send up to two. (USA, AZE, GER, RUS, CAN, UKR)
    4. The host (GER) can send as many as it chooses.

    The entry deadline was 3 August 13, and the entries have been posted. There are currently 23:
    http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028006.htm

    All of the countries who are qualified for the Olympics and could potentially send two have one on the current list, except AZE. Not every country who needs to qualify is on the entry list as of today, but some countries may not try, if their NOC's have stricter requirements than the ISU. I understand there is a "Waiting List" of sorts, which I'd assume consists of possible second entries for the teams who could possible send two, although I think if GER was planning to have more than one, the team would be listed by now.

    I haven't read anything to indicate if the Nebelhorn organizers will decide to lock the field in at 23, add one team from the countries in Top 10 at 2012 Nebelhorn, expand the field, etc.

    For Finlandia, the announcement says that dance fields can be limited to 15, but doesn't say anything about country-specific limitations; instead it says "The Organizer will preferably accept skaters and couples having taken part in the Senior or Junior ISU Championships of the last two (2) seasons (in the finals 2012)." The final deadline was 26 August 13.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conga View Post
    On another note, is the US actually limited to one entry for Nebelhorn and Finlandia or is this their choice? I thought at least one more team was sent to each at different times in the past.
    My understanding is that the U.S. was only permitted 1 entry per discipline at Nebelhorn this year (due to the Olympic qualifying competition taking priority) even though last year's results made them eligible to send 2 in each. One dance team, Hubbell/Donohue, competed at Finlandia last year and Chock/Bates and the Shibutanis were sent in 2011.

    Lynn & Logan were assigned to a second Senior B last season, Ice Challenge, which they've won for the past 2 seasons, and the USA has had 2 dance teams there both in 2011 and 2012 (dates this year are Nov. 19-24, 2013).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-04-2013 at 01:00 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    My understanding is that the U.S. was only permitted 1 entry per discipline at Nebelhorn this year (due to the Olympic qualifying competition taking priority) even though last year's results made them eligible to send 2 in each. One dance team, Hubbell/Donohue, competed at Finlandia last year and Chock/Bates and the Shibutanis were sent in 2011.

    Lynn & Logan were assigned to a second Senior B last season, Ice Challenge, which they've won for the past 2 seasons, and the USA has had 2 dance teams there both in 2011 and 2012 (dates this year are Nov. 19-24, 2013).
    With the addition of Vanessa Lam to Finlandia, there are two entries in both ladies and men, but still only one in dance. Too bad.

    When will the assignments for Ice Challenge be posted? I hope K/G-S get it (even though scores can't count towards a SB ) but there are still two other dance teams in the ISP that do not have any assignments. I would like to see K/G-S and C/M at Graz this season because I was hoping to see them on the GP circuit, so how likely is it that they would be skipped over for the other two teams?

    I am also hoping that Alissa gets Graz, too.

  9. #149

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    Hawayek/Baker won their first JGP gold medal in Mexico City yesterday and Novice champs Lewis/Bye placed 5th in their JGP debut.

    Hawayek/Baker's FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEFYmSptV28

    Lewis/Bye's FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU3vtn184TU

    Quote Originally Posted by Conga View Post
    When will the assignments for Ice Challenge be posted?
    The Ice Challenge Announcement states that final entries by name have to be submitted to the organizers by October 20, 2013.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-08-2013 at 03:39 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #150

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    Hawayek and Baker are wonderful, loved their FD especially. That first lift was amazing and I loved the DW swoop lift later on, He is a wonderful ice dancer and a rock solid partner. I can already see her improvement with him. So excited for their potential, wishing them more success to come!
    MERYL DAVIS AND CHARLIE WHITE - 2014 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!

  11. #151

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    I asked in the PBP thread but I'll ask again here: Why did Hawayek/Baker's spin in the FD get only a L1?
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  12. #152
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    Was very impressed with Lewis/Bye, and their difficult lifts. She is only 13, and he is only 15 yo!

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    I asked in the PBP thread but I'll ask again here: Why did Hawayek/Baker's spin in the FD get only a L1?
    Among other things, he doesn't get down far enough in the sit position.

  14. #154
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    Hawayek/Baker are lovely. She's very musical, and she round out and finishes her body movements: she doesn't fall out of anything and rush to the next thing.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #155
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    Even with a couple of bobbles in the program, Rachel and Michael Parsons were second in short dance at JGP Kosice. They have quite possibly the best matching lines in current junior ice dancers. Their matching leg lines are a beauty. Unfortunately matching lines are not rewarded and appreciated nearly as much today as they were before in ice dance. Skaters are clearly not spending much time training for it. More and more programs can get away with a kind of choreography in which almost no moves need to match the bodies, as long as all the criteria for levels are met. And programs with beautiful matching lines appear to garner no advantage in the points.

    Video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0aSv...SZr27&index=12
    Last edited by Jun Y; 09-14-2013 at 04:48 PM.

  16. #156
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    Thanks for posting, and really happy for them to have a strong outing. Must have been frustrating for them to have to miss Nationals last year with his injury. Hope this gives them confidence heading into the Free dance.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Even with a couple of bobbles in the program, Rachel and Michael Parsons were second in short dance at JGP Kosice. They have quite possibly the best matching lines in current junior ice dancers. Their matching leg lines are a beauty. Unfortunately matching lines are not rewarded and appreciated nearly as much today as they were before in ice dance. Skaters are clearly not spending much time training for it. More and more programs can get away with a kind of choreography in which almost no moves need to match the bodies, as long as all the criteria for levels are met. And programs with beautiful matching lines appear to garner no advantage in the points.

    Video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0aSv...SZr27&index=12
    They are my favorite US junior dance team. Very easy on the eyes. Too bad they are siblings. They have the belbin/agosto look and could go very far.
    Hawayek/Baker isn't my style. He really is too small.

  18. #158

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    The Parsons lines remind me of Samuelson/Bates (when they were together obviously!) and the Hubbells. They also have an easy flow over the ice. Height is pretty close between them -- don't see an advantage here over H/B.

  19. #159
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    Congratulations to the Parsons for winning silver at JGP Kosice and to Holly Moore and Daniel Klaber for winning bronze.

    In the past few years the Parsons had rather powerful music for free dances. This season their free dance is light and lyrical and quite pretty.

    Free dance videos:
    Parsons/Parsons
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BhGG...bWdeasCpnSZr27

    Moore/Klaber
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWE45...bWdeasCpnSZr27

  20. #160

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    Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker have qualified for their first JGP Final by winning their second gold medal of the season in Gdansk, Poland this past weekend!

    Competing in the 5th JGP in Minsk, Belarus this week are Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter (silver in Latvia) and 2013 U.S. Novice silver medalists Tory Patsis/Joe Johnson (their Team USA debut).

    Some ice dance result sheet photos from Challenge Cup near Philadelphia and Pikes Peak Classic in Colorado Springs are posted on IDC's FB page: https://www.facebook.com/icedancecom

    ETA this tweet by USFS in Detroit:
    Ready for some #SA2013 media here in the D. Looking good, @Meryl_Davis @CharlieaWhite @MaiaShibutani @AlexShibutani http://pic.twitter.com/wVaqCurgGl
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-23-2013 at 08:16 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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