View Poll Results: Hughes or Lipinski?

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  • Sarah Hughes

    40 22.35%
  • Tara Lipinski

    139 77.65%
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  1. #81

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    Tara since she had such superior jumps. I dont consider Tara's jumps as great as say Irina Slutskaya's due to that they werent powerful or high enough. However they were still excellent with the rotation, control, air position, and flow out to virtual perfection. She had a very minor flutz and very occasional underrotation on the back end of her triple loop-triple loop combo but those were only technical issues.
    Tara had more than a minor flutz. I can't see that she took off at all from an outside edge. Her double axel technique was also weird. Peggy Fleming said it looked like a roller skating jump--which it probably was!

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Tara had more than a minor flutz. I can't see that she took off at all from an outside edge. Her double axel technique was also weird. Peggy Fleming said it looked like a roller skating jump--which it probably was!
    Of course it was, so was her Salchow's technique.
    But she had an absolutely amazing control of her upper body !

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    However, Lipinski is a stronger skater than Hughes, I don't disagree with that. I also don't think that HUghes' winning performance was better than Lipinski. There's a reason why she didn't get a single 5.9.
    This is probably more because Sarah skated first of the final group, while Tara skated almost last.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Of course it was, so was her Salchow's technique.
    But she had an absolutely amazing control of her upper body !
    Liz Manley had the same salchow technique.

    As for me, I loved both skaters for their own reasons, but will vote for Tara as she is my favorite skater.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Liz Manley had the same salchow technique.
    Sarah Hughes too.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    This whole thread made me lol. I never got the immense dislike for Sarah Hughes. I don't know much abouth her off-ice behavior so I can't comment on that. Regarding her skating, there were many qualities about her that I liked. I actually agree with Peggy Fleming that Sarah has a natural elegance. I found her style and presentation to be incredibly mature for her age. IMO, other skaters at that age (Mao, Yu-na, Irina, almost all the current top American ladies, as well as similar-aged skaters during her time such as Jenny Kirk or Naomi Nari Nam) seemed relatively juniorish, as great as they were. Even Cohen, who was younger than Hughes, I found to not be as mature in her presentation, though I still liked her a lot in 2002. There aren't many skaters I would say that, at 16, had a more mature style - Kwan is one of them. I do agree though that Sarah's basic skating and jump technique was quite poor though.

    However, Lipinski is a stronger skater than Hughes, I don't disagree with that. I also don't think that HUghes' winning performance was better than Lipinski. There's a reason why she didn't get a single 5.9.
    Sasha is older than Sarah by about 7 months.

    When Peggy said that Sarah had "a natural grace and elegance", I think that I threw up a little in my mouth. Her hand positions were horrendous. I hated the way that she entered her jumps, off center or something. And, then, there were the choreographic butt-slaps. My eyes. Lest I be accused of saying this as a Kwanophile, I saw Sarah skate in Phila in 98. When they introduced her as the Jr. National Champion, I said to my seatmate, "If she won, how bad was everyone else?"

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post

    Some people may be offended at the terms skinny, lanky, gangly. Doesn't stop anyone from using those terms to describe Sarah because it describes what she is.
    Dumbest rationalization ever.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    This whole thread made me lol. I never got the immense dislike for Sarah Hughes.
    It's funny. Back in 1999 and 2000 I felt like the only person who couldn't stand Sarah's ugly skating. People forget now how many fans gushed and raved about her at first. I used to cringe at her cheated jumps and awkward skating and wonder why she got a free pass. I felt like the kid in The Emperor's New Clothes. "Is no one else seeing what I am seeing?" I know some of the younger folks won't believe it, you will say, "Sure, sure. Right. Impossible. Sure that happened." But I remember clearly that for about a year Sarah couldn't do a thing wrong by the majority of online skating fans. There was a standard "Sarah wuz robbed" thread nearly every time she competed. She had MANY supporters and many fan sites devoted to her. Then she became a more formidable competitor on the international level and she was scrutinized more. I think some people ripping on her were nervous Kwan and Butyskaya fans. But another big part was that simply with success comes greater scrutiny and higher standards, and she simply couldn't hold a candle to the other top skaters. Sarah once said that Robin always tried to mold her into a pretty princess skating to pretty music, but once she put her foot down and insisted on skating an Olympic long program that stressed her athletic ability more, she felt more comfortable on the ice. Makes one wonder how she would have fared with a different coach. Obviously the coach she had before Robin didn't teach her proper jump technique and then Robin pushed her in a stylistic direction that she didn't feel comfortable with and it showed.
    Last edited by fenway2; 06-12-2013 at 11:17 PM.

  9. #89
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    One hypothesis could be that some Kwan fans supported Hughes as USA's #2. She was no threat to Kwan or should not have been according to the common wisdom. Kwan fans were critical and loathing of Sasha when she appeared in 2000. I don't know who the early Sarah fans were or how many there were circa 1999 and 2000, but they had to be Americans.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 06-12-2013 at 11:52 PM.

  10. #90
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    Lepinski

    Though I enjoyed Hughes programs from season 2000

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Obviously the coach she had before Robin didn't teach her proper jump technique and then Robin pushed her in a stylistic direction that she didn't feel comfortable with and it showed.
    Here is what is so problematic about Wagner's choreography. The karate chops and arm poses to this particular music are stupid. Nobody could have made them look good. Sarah humored her and did this half decently, but it's hard on the eyes.

    Hughes 2003 USA Nationals Short Program

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Here is what is so problematic about Wagner's choreography. The karate chops and arm poses to this particular music are stupid. Nobody could have made them look good. Sarah humored her and did this half decently, but it's hard on the eyes.

    Hughes 2003 USA Nationals Short Program
    She's skating angry..it would seem.

  13. #93
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    Ahem, Tara. . . but, more like by a thousand miles.

    I have seen Sarah recently and Sarah does not have a bad body type at all. She has a very athletic line; she just does not utilize it. Where Sasha had body awareness in spades, and, always knew (from a very innate way) how to give 100% plus to every extension, Sarah just has no sense of this. She gives about 70% to everything, just somehow has the confidence to believe in herself, which pushes her further.

    Tara may not have been the perfect technician when she competed. I am no freestyle expert; but, even if Tara's jumps were right on, it would have been impossible for her to be perfect on so many levels at just age fifteen. For age fifteen, she was highly proficient technically and was well rewarded for what she could do. But, where Tara shines, is that she has a natural poise and energy that few have in any disciplines.

    I remember seeing photos of Tara back in the day, like for Capezio sportswear, and she just had a natural sense of how to posture and position herself well. If you look at her Twitter site, you can see this: something about Tara makes her stand out. A recent skate I saw her do on the Today show also showcases this: Tara just moves well naturally.

    Also, I don't think Sarah understands music (which, yes, is important in figure skating). To bring Sasha back into the mix: yes, Sasha gets music. That was one of her huge natural gifts, in addition to all that flexibility and body awareness. But I think Tara gets music, too: and, I also believe this is one thing that made her hugely popular on the show circuit, as the 'tween crowd really loved her performances and personality.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    Tara...and by a mile.
    Ahem, Tara. . . but, more like by a thousand miles.

    I have seen Sarah recently and Sarah does not have a bad body type at all. She has a very athletic line; she just does not utilize it. Where Sasha had body awareness in spades, and, always knew (from a very innate way) how to give 100% plus to every extension, Sarah just has no sense of this. She gives about 70% to everything, just somehow has the confidence to believe in herself, which pushes her further.

    Tara may not have been the perfect technician when she competed. I am no freestyle expert; but, even if Tara's jumps were right on, it would have been impossible for her to be perfect on so many levels at just age fifteen. For age fifteen, she was highly proficient technically and was well rewarded for what she could do. But, where Tara shines, is that she has a natural poise and energy that few have in any disciplines.

    I remember seeing photos of Tara back in the day, like for Capezio sportswear, and she just had a natural sense of how to posture and position herself well. If you look at her Twitter site, you can see this: something about Tara makes her stand out. A recent skate I saw her do on the Today show also showcases this: Tara just moves well naturally.

    Also, I don't think Sarah understands music (which, yes, is important in figure skating). To bring Sasha back into the mix: yes, Sasha gets music. That was one of her huge natural gifts, in addition to all that flexibility and body awareness. But I think Tara gets music, too: and, I also believe this is one thing that made her hugely popular on the show circuit, as the 'tween crowd really loved her performances and personality.

  15. #95
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    Thanks for the nice posts, some of you.

    So sick of the Tara, Sarah (and Wagner) bashing.

  16. #96

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    Even though I recognize Sasha had better body awareness and music choices that fit her personality better, I always preferred Sarah during their time competing against one another. Yes, Sarah was awkward and wasn't helped out at all by Robin Wagner's choreography. However, I always thought there was something special about Sarah and actually preferred her skating skills and actual content of the choreography (if not the way Sarah executed it) much more than Sasha's which seemed so bare-bones in 2000-2002. There seemed to be more depth to Sarah's skating (and I'm not just talking about edges which were deeper than Sasha's at the time). I actually thought there wasn't much cohesiveness or an actual point-of-view to most of Sasha's skating until later on. Maybe that's why I wasn't sold on Sasha's musicality. That said, Sasha's Romeo and Juliet and Dark Eyes is better than anything Sarah produced. I think COP may have helped with that as it itemized what Sasha had to put in her routines.

  17. #97
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    I wasn't sure what Sasha had to do with this thread but then I saw some posts above bringing her up. Naturally, I always preferred Sasha. At her best she could really sell a program, same for Tara, but to me Sarah didn't. Just a matter of preference I guess.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Thanks for the nice posts, some of you.

    So sick of the Tara, Sarah (and Wagner) bashing.
    Wagner did too much bashing of Hughes in 2003 and Cohen in 2005. I think she deserves some criticism for what she did as a coach and choreographer.

  19. #99
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    I brought up Sasha mainly because like Hughes she was a victim of Wagner's choreographic choices and her strange willingness to trash and criticize former students. I say strange because Wagner should not have been talking down students when she is completely uncritical of herself.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I brought up Sasha mainly because like Hughes she was a victim of Wagner's choreographic choices and her strange willingness to trash and criticize former students. I say strange because Wagner should not have been talking down students when she is completely uncritical of herself.
    Is the "gag order" still in effect?

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