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  1. #181
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    Amelia Lacoste was guaranteed a spot because she is WS20. Imai was guaranteed a spot because she was WS21. Miyahara was guaranteed one because she was Top 24 SB, and, in addition, she got a discretionary host pick, which is standard when a host wants to give their top junior-turning-senior good opportunities. The selection rules don't care whether or not we have a problem with their selections.

    Neither Zhang nor Cesario is guaranteed a spot, making the Skate America appointment the topic being debated. Cesario placed higher than Zhang at US Nats, and her SB, earned at a junior competition, was 7+ points higher than Zhang's at last year's Skate America. Cesario is also 12 places higher than Zhang on the SB list, which should mean Cesario should have a good chance to be an early pick as an alternate, but based on last year's experience, this is a gamble. Plus Cesario can still be appointed to the SA TBA spot, which generally happens around Labor/Labour Day.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Amelia Lacoste was guaranteed a spot because she is WS20.
    It's interesting that Lacoste was apparently assigned as a host pick, yet she technically should have gotten a GP aside from Canada based on the World Ranking. I don't know what SC's plans are, but are they really not planning on moving any of their juniors up? I'd think they just threw away an additional spot.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The selection rules don't care whether or not we have a problem with their selections.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    It's interesting that Lacoste was apparently assigned as a host pick, yet she technically should have gotten a GP aside from Canada based on the World Ranking. I don't know what SC's plans are, but are they really not planning on moving any of their juniors up? I'd think they just threw away an additional spot.
    Last season, Skate Canada made the same host picks. Lacoste was also guaranteed a spot with WS 16, and Skate Canada didn't force another Fed to choose her in the initial selection and then assigning her to a host TBA later. They threw the TBA spot back into the pool on 5 September, and Shelepen got the spot. A host spot last year was more understandable for Osmond, since she wasn't guaranteed a spot and was 41 on the SB list. She was still passed over by skaters ranked lower from the alternates list, and NHK didn't assign her when Czisny finally pulled out. (Nagasu got Shelpen's spot a couple of days earlier.)
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 06-08-2013 at 06:45 PM.
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    It's interesting that Lacoste was apparently assigned as a host pick, yet she technically should have gotten a GP aside from Canada based on the World Ranking. I don't know what SC's plans are, but are they really not planning on moving any of their juniors up? I'd think they just threw away an additional spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Last season, Skate Canada made the same host picks. Lacoste was also guaranteed a spot with WS 16, and Skate Canada didn't force another Fed to choose her in the initial selection and then assigning her to a host TBA later. They threw the TBA spot back into the pool on 5 September, and Shelepen got the spot. A host spot last year was more understandable for Osmond, since she wasn't guaranteed a spot and was 41 on the SB list. She was still passed over by skaters ranked lower from the alternates list, and NHK didn't assign her when Czisny finally pulled out. (Nagasu got Shelpen's spot a couple of days earlier.)
    They did it a lot last season. They threw away an ice dance spot too and were in fact the only host nation to give a spot to a skater guaranteed one spot that only got one spot in the initial selection.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    To be honest I don't know who I'd give the spot to, Hicks or Cesario (if Wang/Miller stay jr as people thought). Their last season was pretty similar internationally.

    I'd say skateoff.
    We don't know if Hicks is doing JGP again or not yet because her SB and WS were not in the top 24, so maybe her name was submitted and just not selected for GP assignments, or maybe it was not submitted at all if she/her coaches/the USFS decided she'd do JGP again. If she's doing JGP again, odds are really good that Cesario gets the host pick, especially if Czisny chose not to participate in the GP like it appears she did, likely because her injuries are taking longer to heal. I can't really think of anyone else that would be in contention besides Cesario for the SA spot except maybe Czisny if she wants it and is in form by then (doesn't seem likely), or perhaps Lam or Cain, though Cesario had better JGP and Nationals results than Cain last season and got to compete at JW, and Lam was out injured for the second half of the season, missing Nationals and the chance to get an assignment afterwards, and while she did well at Regionals and Sectionals, her one JGP showing was pretty poor. Also, Lam and Cain are both still age-eligible for the JGP so they may be opting to compete there instead. So odds look good for Cesario and SA.

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    To Pinky's earlier suggestion, I really don't think that Zhang's participation in Skate America will boost ratings.

    USFSA are either unfair and illogical, or they are banking on Cesario getting an alternate spot.

    I'm sure they are holding the TBA for Czisny, hoping that she can be ready by then.
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  8. #188

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    I don't think this was posted earlier? TSL's take on the GP Assignments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wox91rf7CPc
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I don't think this was posted earlier? TSL's take on the GP Assignments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wox91rf7CPc
    They clearly don't understand some of the selection criteria. Or read FSU enough

  10. #190
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    They're still living in 2004, so this shouldn't be surprising.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    especially if Czisny chose not to participate in the GP like it appears she did
    Maybe Czisny decided that rather than commit to two Grand Prix competitions, she would prefer to skate in just one if an invitation could be had. She would hardly be the first skater to do this.

    And, just maybe, the USFSA, which likes her and knows she can help them sell seats more easily than Hicks or Cesario can, let her know that they would keep the slot open for her, provided she showed them she was ready for it. We shall see.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Maybe Czisny decided that rather than commit to two Grand Prix competitions, she would prefer to skate in just one if an invitation could be had. She would hardly be the first skater to do this.

    And, just maybe, the USFSA, which likes her and knows she can help them sell seats more easily than Hicks or Cesario can, let her know that they would keep the slot open for her, provided she showed them she was ready for it. We shall see.
    I really don't think that selling seats is why there is a TBA for Skate America. The seats are going to be sold to those who want to attend Skate America first. Then, there will be some overflow of people who go just to see their favorite (the Yuna Kim factor). Finally, there will be folks who go just because it's in their backyard, and they may or may not be die hard fans. For Skate America, there will be a lot of people in the stands for anybody who skates out of Detroit. (My guess is that the dance competition will be heavily attended.) There will be a lot of Canadians coming over from Toronto. And there will be about 20-30 people there for Max Aaron (who has a lot of family in the area). While they are wonderful skaters, tickets (and ratings) are not going to sell (or go up) if Courtney or Sam get invited. If Alisa were invited, she might draw 20-30 more spectators. US Figure Skating might not care about those 20-30 extra tickets. Instead, they are probably more concerned with getting the ratings up so they can command a bigger broadcast contract in the long term-- and in the short term, they are probably concerned about setting up their top skaters for medals in Sochi with this competition. Just sayin'...
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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    Instead, they are probably more concerned with getting the ratings up so they can command a bigger broadcast contract in the long term-- and in the short term, they are probably concerned about setting up their top skaters for medals in Sochi with this competition. Just sayin'...
    So, who's more likely to (1) draw higher ratings and/or (2) earn a medal in Sochi: Czisny, Cesario, or Hicks? Hmmm....

  14. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    They're still living in 2004, so this shouldn't be surprising.
    Couldn't agree more. Yikes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    They did it a lot last season. They threw away an ice dance spot too and were in fact the only host nation to give a spot to a skater guaranteed one spot that only got one spot in the initial selection.
    Too true: Skate Canada gave their Ice Dance spots to V/M, and then Ralph/Hill, who were guaranteed one as #21 WS, and to Gilles/Poirier. G/P weren't guaranteed any spots as a Returning Split Couple (7-12 at Worlds with prior partner) -- they could be considered for a host spot and for another spot -- but worst case (reasonable) scenario was that they'd be at the top of the alternates list and get a minimum of one, and no Returning Split Couple (Pairs or Dance announced by the initial selection) didn't get at least one in the initial selection, and not always a host pick.

    The only other guaranteed-one senior skaters/teams last season who got one in the initial selection were either from non-host nations or from host nations who maximized their spots by having another host assign them a guaranteed spot.

    • Dance: Alessandrinin/Vaturi (ITA), Guignard/Fabbri (ITA), Slobina/Sitnikov (AZE) -- they got a second as alternates -- Orford/Williams (CAN)* -- they got a second as alternates -- Pukash/Guerriero (RUS), and Chock/Bates (USA).
    • Pairs: Kemp/King (GBR) -- got a second as alternates -- Gerbolt/Enbert (RUS), Hausch/Wende (GER)
    • Ladies: Nagasu (USA) -- got a second as an alternate -- J. Helgesson (SWE) -- got a second as an alternate -- Korpi (FIN) -- got a second as an alternate -- Hecken (GER).
    • Men: None


    *The one Skate Canada got right.

    Hosts who forced other Feds to assign a guaranteed-one skater in the initial selection and later assigned a host spot:
    • RUS: Korobeynikova, Menshov
    • FRA: Meite, James/Cipres,
    • CHN: Li, Yu/Wang
    • USA: Possibly Yankowskas/Reagan, since Split Couples (1-6 at Worlds with prior partner) aren't listed in last year's GP announcement, and we don't know if any spots were required in the initial selection.


    Hosts who got their guaranteed-one skaters two spots in the initial selection without giving up a host slot last season are:

    • RUS: Lipnitskaia, Tuktamysheva, Biryukova
    • USA: C. Zhang, Zawadzki, Gold, Dornbush, Rippon, Miner
    • JPN: Mura, Oda, Machida


    Hosts who got skaters not guaranteed any spots one or more non-host spots in the initial selection anyway:
    • RUS: Voronov (later assigned an alternate spot)
    • USA: Castelli/Shnapir (later assigned a host spot)


    For the Comeback Skaters (1-6 at previous Worlds in last ten seasons) who were guaranteed two, JPN did not assign a host spot to Ando and USA did not assign a host spot to Weir.


    FWIW, the ISU published a new set of GP rosters dated June 5; the originals were dated June 3, but no changes to the rosters were made.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 06-11-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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  16. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    So, who's more likely to (1) draw higher ratings and/or (2) earn a medal in Sochi: Czisny, Cesario, or Hicks? Hmmm....
    None of them are a factor-- they will assign who they want to assign based on performance and political pull within the international committee. The executives at US Figure Skating want the organization to continue to exist, so they are always looking for ways to make more money for the organization and develop it's talent. It's just good business. Just because you (not you specifically Vagabond) want a skater on the GP and think that they deserve it, doesn't mean that it is the best decision for US Figure Skating. For years 'we' have complained that there needs to be some room for assigning a skater who has a stellar summer/early fall, and when it happens, we complain that skater X was robbed by not getting an assignment. Sam Cesario, Courtney Hicks, and Alissa Czisny should all understand that the TBA at Skate America means that if they are the best skater of the summer, that they have a pretty solid shot at receiving the assignment. If I were any of them, I would be training my butt off right now (and I imagine that they are), and I would be coming up with a strategy so that I can be at my best at one of the big summer monitoring competitions.
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  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    Sam Cesario, Courtney Hicks, and Alissa Czisny should all understand that the TBA at Skate America means that if they are the best skater of the summer, that they have a pretty solid shot at receiving the assignment. If I were any of them, I would be training my butt off right now (and I imagine that they are), and I would be coming up with a strategy so that I can be at my best at one of the big summer monitoring competitions.
    Is it the best strategy for US figure skating for athletes to need to have a mini-peak during the summer, to ignore the skaters who traditionally start slowly but could still use the international exposure and feedback, or to have an early GP incentive for skaters to have a sub-optimal training plan just to vie for that spot?
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    I suspect the difficulty is picking out skaters who start slowly but will peak later (as opposed to skaters who are just not gonna have a good season). I guess the only reasonable method is to send skaters whoever is ready at the time to internationals...

  19. #199

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    The ISU has published the Grand Prix Announcement for 2013-14 that includes the minimum score requirements - total OR TES): http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4555
    Each entrant to the Grand Prix six events must meet a minimum total score from ISU Events (GP, JGP, Championships, World Team Trophy (WTT) or in the five (5) selected international competitions as mentioned hereunder) of the previous season OR a minimum technical score in short program/short dance and free programs/free dance from such ISU Events or selected international competitions (last season or current season) to be included in the entry or the Alternate List (with exceptions and procedures as noted in paragraphs 6, 8 and 9 and 10). These scores will be published annually and be taken in dialogue with the ISU Technical Committee in each discipline and approved by the ISU Grand Prix Coordination Group. The events within the selected international competitions as listed hereunder from last season or the current season must meet the criteria that the composition of the Technical Panel fulfills the requirement of an ISU qualified Technical Controller and at least one Technical Specialist with an ISU qualification.
    The "5 selected international competitions" for 2012/13 and 2013/14 that can be used to fulfill the Total or TES minimum score requirements are:
    U.S. International Figure Skating Classic 2013 – Men, Ladies, Pairs and Ice Dance
    Nebelhorn Trophy 2013 - Men, Ladies, Pairs and Ice Dance
    Ondrej Nepela Memorial 2013 – Men, Ladies, Pairs and Ice Dance
    Finlandia Trophy 2013 – Men, Ladies and Ice Dance
    Cup of Nice 2013 – Men, Ladies, Pairs and Ice Dance

    Minimum Total Scores:
    Men 160.68
    Ladies 130.98
    Pairs 135.42
    Ice Dance 113.73

    Minimum TES scores:
    Men 31.62 (SP) 53.43 (FS)
    Ladies 22.11 (SP) 44.85 (FS)
    Pairs 20.00 (SP) 36.00 (FS)
    Ice Dance 22.98 (SD) 32.19 (FD)
    "Skaters/couples who have scored at least the above mentioned limit in an ISU Championships, ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and Final (Senior or Junior) between July 1st, 2012 and May 31st, 2013 are eligible for selection into the Grand Prix events 2013/14 or in the alternate list."

    ETA from the Announcement: "It is not mandatory for the Organizing Member’s skaters/couple to fulfil the criteria of the minimum score but it is strongly suggested."
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-12-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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    So skaters who want to compete in one of those five senior B's will need a higher minimum TES than they would need to compete at Euros/4CCs or the Olympics?!?!?
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

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