View Poll Results: Which lady had weakest overall average level competiion while on top in primes

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  • Anett Pootosh

    27 13.78%
  • Michelle Kwan

    51 26.02%
  • Kim Yu Na

    16 8.16%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    6 3.06%
  • Rosalynn Summer

    11 5.61%
  • Katarina Witt

    5 2.55%
  • Kristi Yamaguchi

    2 1.02%
  • Midori Ito

    2 1.02%
  • Oksana Baiul

    37 18.88%
  • Dorothy Hamill

    15 7.65%
  • Peggy Fleming

    16 8.16%
  • Trixi Schubert

    8 4.08%
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  1. #161
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    It is also funny to see many of the Kwan fans arguing her competition was super tough and the toughest ever by far in this thread, are the same ones who I remember in another thread a couple months ago saying the ISU elevated Slutskaya and invented her rivalry with Kwan, when Irina was not good enough to be one on the merits of her own skating (which I agree with by the way), all because they didnt want a 10 year Henie like run of dominance by Kwan and there was nobody else to challenge her. Now suddenly some of these same posters talking about her great and tough competition and field. Talk about a contradiction!

  2. #162

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    ISU invented rivalry ? Never heard that before, and think only a real rivalry existed dating back to circa 1993.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-16-2013 at 02:45 AM.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    ISU invented rivalry ? Never heard that before, and think only a real rivalry existed dating back to circa 1993.
    Remember how Kwan pretended to love Slutskaya and how they both told the press they were "like sisters"? Ira Slutskaya may have had an English-speaking persona that was slightly phonier than her native one, but I think those two were genuinely not rivals until 2001-2002. In 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 Slutskaya had to push herself technically and capitalize on the fact there were no other challengers (and the influence of the multiple Russian speaking federations). In 2001-2002, Slutskaya got a more interesting free program-- at least from an audience perspective--that combined her technical advantages with a little drama. I think the battle between them remained warm and friendly-- though highly neurotic--throughout the season because the two had spent so many years not being rivals. Their individual neuroses produced the irony that neither of them would take the Olympic Gold medal. Perhaps if it had been a more heated rivalry, where one or both really wanted nothing more than to deny the other of the Gold, it might have helped them competitively.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Remember how Kwan pretended to love Slutskaya and how they both told the press they were "like sisters"?
    How do you know she pretended? I think Kwan genuinely liked Slute very much. Remember at the time these skaters spent months touring together on COI. If Kwan and Lipinski could go to carnivals together on the COI tour, then I think she and Slute could have liked each other very much. Kwan is very easy to read and has trouble hiding her emotions.
    Last edited by fenway2; 06-22-2013 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    How do you know she pretended? I think Kwan genuinely liked Slute very much. Remember at the time these skaters spent months touring together on COI. If Kwan and Lipinski could go to carnivals together on the COI tour, then I think she and Slute could have liked each other very much. Kwan is very easy to read and has trouble hiding her emotions.
    Lipinski and Kwan do not really like each other.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Lipinski and Kwan do not really like each other.
    Was Kwan's "I like you" comment just a PR move? Are you calling her a liar?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Lipinski and Kwan do not really like each other.
    And we know this how?

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Was Kwan's "I like you" comment just a PR move? Are you calling her a liar?
    Okay, I wouldn't do that, and I was not referring to any comments made by Kwan. But skating is an entertainment business. These girls were very young-- multimillionaires at age 15. People say things in public they don't mean, especially when they are packaged and sold teenagers. Is this news? We don't really need to discuss this further, and I've gotten us off-topic.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Lipinski and Kwan do not really like each other.
    Really? I didn't think they were friends and I'm sure they were annoyed with each other's media attention and the rivalry wouldn't do anything to help that, but I didn't know it ever got personal.

    When was the last time they really had to deal with each other? Since they were in their teens during the height of the rivalry, I wonder if they'd get along better now as adults.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Really? I didn't think they were friends and I'm sure they were annoyed with each other's media attention and the rivalry wouldn't do anything to help that, but I didn't know it ever got personal.

    When was the last time they really had to deal with each other? Since they were in their teens during the height of the rivalry, I wonder if they'd get along better now as adults.
    They spoke at The RISE premiere..Tara posted a pic of the two of them together.

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    It is also funny to see many of the Kwan fans arguing her competition was super tough and the toughest ever by far in this thread, are the same ones who I remember in another thread a couple months ago saying the ISU elevated Slutskaya and invented her rivalry with Kwan, when Irina was not good enough to be one on the merits of her own skating (which I agree with by the way), all because they didnt want a 10 year Henie like run of dominance by Kwan and there was nobody else to challenge her. Now suddenly some of these same posters talking about her great and tough competition and field. Talk about a contradiction!
    I don't really see it as a contradiction because just because some fans argue that Slutskaya's rise was sort of artificial doesn't mean that the overall level of competition wasn't high. Maybe some of the more ardent Kwan fans are only arguing that Kwan was that much better to them during that period, but she still had to perform at a high level to actually win anything.

    Anyway, we obviously disagree about who had the weakest competition at the top and we all have our own rationalizations.

  12. #172
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    I am still amazed at the low number of votes for Poetzsch. I challenge anyone to watch a series of tapes from the 77 Worlds, 79 Worlds, 80 Olympics (and keep in mind watching Biellmann's wonderful free skating she sucked at figures in a major way so was not a competitive factor of any kind before 81), 80 Worlds and vote anyone else. Poetzsch's biggest rival was Fratianne who was weak at figures and a zzzz free skater (although she still never lost to the mediocre Poetzsch in a short or long program ever after 76). Her second biggest rival was Dagmur Lurz who was a semi decent figures specialist who Poetzsch never lost to in figures, and a ghastly Lurch from Addams Family free skater, yet still made most major podiums this period with that level of skating.

    The 86% of people who didnt vote for Poetzsch competition need to watch all of these videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCesUkLJKA0 Poetzsch's silver (and nearly gold) winning performance at the 79 Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at7bdjBqo5w Poetzsch's winning performances (which placed a strong 2nd in just the LP phase) at the 80 Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FZKzP5rwZs Poetzsch's short program at the 1980 Olympics which contributed to her Olympic Gold medal. She still placed a strong 3rd in this phase with this rubbish performance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUdi2wHRwI Fratianne's zzzzz winning LP performance at the 78 Worlds with a big miss, only 1 successful triple, and a 3 year old program, and this was by far the strongest Worlds of this whole quad (Poetzsch won overall)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQuUMATstO4 Lurz's bronze medal performance at the 1980 Olympics (like I said Lurch on ice)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQu6GVMGqOQ Lurz's silver medal performance at the 1980 Worlds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7f6Hbj970g Lurz's 4th place performance at the 79 Worlds

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfXwK-5erYE Fratianne's winning performance at the 77 Worlds (which amazingly won the LP phase too)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Cefl4Fwnk Fratianne's winning performance at the 1980 U.S Nationals

    This was the cream of skating in that era though.

  13. #173
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    Poetzsch had great basics but her jumping was pretty poor. She barely got that salchow around at 79 worlds. Luckily the level of skating went up after the 79-80 season.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I am still amazed at the low number of votes for Poetzsch. I challenge anyone to watch a series of tapes from the 77 Worlds, 79 Worlds, 80 Olympics (and keep in mind watching Biellmann's wonderful free skating she sucked at figures in a major way so was not a competitive factor of any kind before 81), 80 Worlds and vote anyone else. Poetzsch's biggest rival was Fratianne who was weak at figures and a zzzz free skater (although she still never lost to the mediocre Poetzsch in a short or long program ever after 76). Her second biggest rival was Dagmur Lurz who was a semi decent figures specialist who Poetzsch never lost to in figures, and a ghastly Lurch from Addams Family free skater, yet still made most major podiums this period with that level of skating.
    Of course, but you see that people always vote for the one they know : Michelle Kwan !

  15. #175
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    Pootosh is the best spelling ever, but why are there so many different spellings of Annette's family name? Over the years I have seen official English publications spell it various ways. I do not as you know speak German, so I interested to learn why this may be.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Of course, but you see that people always vote for the one they know : Michelle Kwan !
    I guess that is an unofficial FSU rule but even Baiul has more votes than Poetzsch. Granted I dont think Baiul had great competition but Kerrigan, Chen, Sato, Bonaly, Chouinard is still way tougher competition than just Fratianne and Lurz.

  17. #177
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    I have no idea why Michelle has the most votes here.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I guess that is an unofficial FSU rule but even Baiul has more votes than Poetzsch. Granted I dont think Baiul had great competition but Kerrigan, Chen, Sato, Bonaly, Chouinard is still way tougher competition than just Fratianne and Lurz.
    I admit that I voted for Baiul because I don't know much about "Pootosh" era, and partly because I think Baiul didn't deserve any of her title, but that's not the question, just a bad revenge from me ! Hahahaaaa

  19. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I have no idea why Michelle has the most votes here.
    Me, neither. Furthermore, Michelle's biggest obstacle was often not the competition but the judges themselves. Even at Nationals, the judges seemed eager to crown Sasha the next figure skating queen--if only Sasha had managed to stay on her feet. Look at Michelle's marks at 2000 Worlds--7 triples including a 3-3 and she got two 5.6s and three 5.7s. Yes, she skated first, but wouldn't 5.8s have left enough room for Irina? Sarah Hughes got 5.8s for tech skating first at SLC, didn't she? And 5.6?? Then there was the judge that gave her a 5.1 for her 2004 short program. Who knew a time deduction was worth that much? And then there were Tara's 5.9s for presentation at Nagano--5.9? Really? The same as Michelle? There is even a case to be made for Michelle placing over Irina's overwrought LP at SLC. At least we can chalk that up to a fall. I halfway suspect, however, the result might have been the same, even if Michelle had not fallen.

  20. #180
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    It is funny Slutskaya has only 4 votes though. Since Michelle has so many which I agree with shouldnt Irina also have alot. After all they were from the exact same era so had the exact same competition and since so many of us think Michelle's was poor, Irina's must have been too. Irina would have been my 2nd vote if I were allowed two, since I think the 1996-2006 period was the most uninspiring overall period of womens skating ever. Then again Irina faced Michelle which already made her competition tougher than Michelle's who couldnt face herself, the only good skater (Kwan) of that lame era.

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