View Poll Results: Which lady had weakest overall average level competiion while on top in primes

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  • Anett Pootosh

    27 13.78%
  • Michelle Kwan

    51 26.02%
  • Kim Yu Na

    16 8.16%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    6 3.06%
  • Rosalynn Summer

    11 5.61%
  • Katarina Witt

    5 2.55%
  • Kristi Yamaguchi

    2 1.02%
  • Midori Ito

    2 1.02%
  • Oksana Baiul

    37 18.88%
  • Dorothy Hamill

    15 7.65%
  • Peggy Fleming

    16 8.16%
  • Trixi Schubert

    8 4.08%
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  1. #61
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    Of the people who were around since I started to follow skating on this poll- Ito, Yamaguchi, Kwan, Slutskaya, Kim, Asada, Witt; the weakest competition was Kwan and Slutskaya (basically tied since they were in the exact same era) with Kwan having the easier competition if one has to pick as she only had to face Irina while Irina had to face Michelle. So for that reason I chose Kwan. Alot are saying Poetzsch and Fleming had weak competition but I know nothing about those eras so I cant really judge them. I had never heard of Poetzsch until glancing the list of winners one day, so she must not be a memorable figure in the sport but stil knowing nothing about her era I cant pick her.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    if you remove Kwan then Slutskaya is a 5 or 6 time World Champion.
    I had thought of that as well, and pretty much why sums up why I voted for Kwan. What a nightmare that would be, a sloppy and fugly skater like Slutskaya winning that many World titles, but without Kwan it would have happened since Irina was 2nd to Michelle so many times. Pretty much means for the most part the others must have kind of sucked. That isnt to take anything away from Kwan, the one and only brilliant skater of that era.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    I agree with this, and don't know why anyone would choose Kwan over Poetzsch for this. Granted she was post figures era but Kwan had to deal with Chen, Bobek, Lipinski, Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Cohen, Hughes, Suguri, Kostner etc..
    As for Poetzsch, if some posters haven't watched the 1980 vids and seen at least her and Linda's boring skating, I sympathize with your plight. It was a little hard to get through Fratianne and harder to get through Poetzsch. Lurz I just watched for the first time just now, and I see I wasn't missing anything. Biellman, Watanabe, and Lisa Marie Allen were more entertaining skaters.

  4. #64
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    I was too young to see any of Poetzsch and Fratianne and havent bothered to look them up on tapes. From what people have told me it isnt worth the time or effort, even to see if they are a worthy choice in a poll like this or not. A friend of mind told me Fratianne was a poor womens Kerrigan, but she was still the better in free skating anyway between her and Poetzsch. I also have heard Linda did the most boring and tedious Carmen ever and used it 3 years in a row, ever wearing the same dress for both short and long programs several years in a row, and used her previous long program 3 years in a row before that.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by riveredge View Post
    Oh dear God. Can you just shut up for once?!! You're like an atomic time bomb and stop embarrassing the rest of Yuna fans on this board even more.
    If I have something to say, I'll say it. If you think you can say it better, please go ahead. All these lecturers including you and l'etoile, remained silent when Yu-Na and her fans were under unfair attack from the haters, even during the Orser-Kim split. Stop giving me your silly lecture until you have better things to say. It's not been like I was jumping into threads without leaving sufficient time for other well-spoken Yu-Na fans to react first. You get it?

  6. #66
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    I tried to look info on Trixi Schubert online but couldnt find a skater under that name. Could anyone inform me who this Trixi Schubert is. Or did the person mean the famous figures specialist Trixi Schuba and was making fun of her in some way?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    I was too young to see any of Poetzsch and Fratianne and havent bothered to look them up on tapes. From what people have told me it isnt worth the time or effort, even to see if they are a worthy choice in a poll like this or not. A friend of mind told me Fratianne was a poor womens Kerrigan, but she was still the better in free skating anyway between her and Poetzsch. I also have heard Linda did the most boring and tedious Carmen ever and used it 3 years in a row, ever wearing the same dress for both short and long programs several years in a row, and used her previous long program 3 years in a row before that.
    Linda Fratianne wearing the same dress for the SP and FS is kind of strange. It reminds me of Danny Kwan making Michelle dress like a spelling bee contestant. None of the other ladies in 1980 were doing that, so I am sure a few judges thought she was odd. It seems like the men were getting very glammed up in different SP and FS costumes circa 1980.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    If I have something to say, I'll say it. If you think you can say it better, please go ahead. All these lecturers including you and l'etoile, remained silent when Yu-Na and her fans were under unfair attack from the haters, even during the Orser-Kim split. Stop giving me your silly lecture until you have better things to say. It's not been like I was jumping into threads without leaving sufficient time for other well-spoken Yu-Na fans to react first. You get it?
    This is my last reply to you because you're a lunatic and a war-freak. Every time there's a post that is different from your view all of a sudden he/she is a bot. There's no conspiracy twat. I know there are a lot of haters online and in this forum but the more you engaged to them and start generalizing then you're no different from them. So, go ahead try to make a fool out of yourself.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    I was too young to see any of Poetzsch and Fratianne and havent bothered to look them up on tapes. From what people have told me it isnt worth the time or effort, even to see if they are a worthy choice in a poll like this or not. A friend of mind told me Fratianne was a poor womens Kerrigan, but she was still the better in free skating anyway between her and Poetzsch. I also have heard Linda did the most boring and tedious Carmen ever and used it 3 years in a row, ever wearing the same dress for both short and long programs several years in a row, and used her previous long program 3 years in a row before that.
    I think I saw a few seconds of Poetzsch on YouTube and then switched it off because I was bored lol.

  10. #70
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    I would like a video of Fratianne skating (or Poetzsch for that matter) when I am the dentist, and the freezing or laughing gas is not working as hoped. About otherwise not really. I would say Lurz except I think of that butler at the Addams family (forget his name) everytime I see him skate with those slow lurching movements and that hunchy posture. Actually isnt his name Lurch, so I guess her name Lurz is appropriate.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    A friend of mind told me Fratianne was a poor womens Kerrigan,
    What does that even mean?

    I also have heard Linda did the most boring and tedious Carmen ever and used it 3 years in a row, ever wearing the same dress for both short and long programs several years in a row, and used her previous long program 3 years in a row before that.
    Linda used Carmen for her SP in 76 and for her LPs for 79 and 80. She used Schez for her LP in 76 and 78. She re-wore her SP dress in Lake Placid for her LP at the games, because she was superstitious, and she had skated very well in that same dress for the SP.

    Linda skated to whatever Frank told her to skate to, so any complaints about her music choices and programs have to be directed at Frank. The only exception where Linda went out on her own was when Frank wanted her to skate to Sleeping Beauty for the 80 Olympic LP, but Linda was adamant about sticking with Carmen; Since she re-won her World title in 79 with Carmen, Linda's superstitious nature influenced her to stay with Carmen for the 80 season as well.

    There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of Carmens in skating history. I'm pretty sure Linda's wasn't the "most boring and tedious Carmen ever".

    ----

    Here are two of Linda's best performances as an amateur. They showed the tremendous potential that she had as a teenager:

    76 Nationals LP

    77 Worlds SP
    Last edited by orbitz; 06-02-2013 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Add links

  12. #72
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    Linda showed amazing potential as a young skater. Little did anyone know the 76 Nationals was as good as she was ever going to be (apart from improvement in figures).

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Schuba did benefit from a weak figures field as well. You can find scores on winter-olympic-memories.com and you will notice her figures scores arent that different than Fleming. However her competitors scores in figures are really low. Gaby Seyfert was said to be weak in figures but she was always 2nd when she stayed and competed in Trixi's era, and close enough to easily beat Schuba overall. I dont see how so many vote Fleming when Seyfert who was 2nd best to Fleming proved even old and past her prime she could easily dominate Trixi's era including Trixi herself, so Schuba would have to be the choice of weaker competition over her.

    As for the Kwan era if you remove Kwan then Slutskaya is a 5 or 6 time World Champion. That already says enough about the quality of competition in that era.
    Great website!! Shows that in figures schubas opponents weren't even average!! So few benefitted more than her because figures meant so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Plushenko of 2006 would have crushed Lysacek of 2010 by about 30 points, just as he did the 2006 field. Lambiel of 2006 would have probably been about tied with Lysacek and Plushenko in 2010 considering he made way more mistakes in 2010 and was only about 10 points behind both. Buttle of 2006 was probably about the same as Takahashi in 2010 as well. So I would say almost equally weak but since the winner in 2006 was so much better than anyone in 2010 then 2006 is better just for that.
    Impossible!! In 2006 plushenko doubled a jump So in all reality it's possible that under the 2010 scoring system lysacek would've beaten plushenkos 2006 skate too. Under 2006 rules likely that plushenko wouldve won in 2010 too.

  14. #74
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    I'm almost half convinced that if people see Kwan's name in a poll, they'll vote for her, regardless of what the topic might be. Which is the only explanation as to why she's winning this poll.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I was thinking it might could be that, but I was also wondering if some psychotic Yu-Na fanatics were somehow trying to lessen Kwan's accomplishments by claiming she had no competition to try and make Yu-Na somehow seem better, which is really contradictory if that is what is happening considering how those same Yu-Na fanatics claim that Mao, Joannie, Carolina, and Miki are no competition whatsoever for Yu-Na. Freakin' DELUSIONAL!
    Oh poor Michelle Kwan is being attacked by those Yuna-bots again! It must be them--what else could explain any poll result that I disagree with? When a poll doesn't reflect what I know is reality, it must be the Yuna-bots at work...

    So who's delusional again?

  16. #76

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    Baiul had pretty weak competition. Surya was her main rival and she was never being handed a gold medal unless the others failed to show up. Kerrigan was never a rival which is the main reason the judges probably didn't give her the gold in Lillehammer, they didn't like the idea of a fluke win. Ito wasn't there, Yamaguchi wasn't there. Lu Chen was just up and coming and was from China so she had absolutely no political backing. Baiul managed to win the Olympics with no triple in combination and a ton of posing. I love her, don't get me wrong, but she was so lucky to win that competition. She also high tailed it out of there just in the nick of time.

    There is no way Kwan had the weakest competition. People are voting for her as a joke, to protect their favorite, etc. You don't stay on top of a sport for 10 years and never come across stiff competition. Kwan faced enough competition for 3 lifetimes in this sport. It's cute though, Kwan wins all the polls around here.

    Kwan had to compete against Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Cohen, Hughes, Lipinski, Bobek, Suguri, and countless others. Kwan won 5 world gold medals in this time but her competitors won 4 others plus 2 olympic titles. I guess Kwan should take it as a compliment, she was so damn good no one was even competition for her.
    Last edited by BigB08822; 06-03-2013 at 01:23 AM.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  17. #77

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    I also voted Baiul. She won that rare Winter Olympic on a 2 year cycle when Kristi/Midori had retired, and Michelle/Tara had yet be reckoned with. It was a 2 year lull between two very fierce periods. Her main competition Kerrigan/Bonaly wasn't nearly as strong. Even Chen, while underated, still placed under all of Midori, Kristi, Michelle and Tara at the biggest competitions (once Michelle and Tara came of age, of course).

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Baiul had pretty weak competition. Surya was her main rival and she was never being handed a gold medal unless the others failed to show up. Kerrigan was never a rival which is the main reason the judges probably didn't give her the gold in Lillehammer, they didn't like the idea of a fluke win. Ito wasn't there, Yamaguchi wasn't there. Lu Chen was just up and coming and was from China so she had absolutely no political backing. Baiul managed to win the Olympics with no triple in combination and a ton of posing. I love her, don't get me wrong, but she was so lucky to win that competition. She also high tailed it out of there just in the nick of time.

    There is no way Kwan had the weakest competition. People are voting for her as a joke, to protect their favorite, etc. You don't stay on top of a sport for 10 years and never come across stiff competition. Kwan faced enough competition for 3 lifetimes in this sport. It's cute though, Kwan wins all the polls around here.

    Kwan had to compete against Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Cohen, Hughes, Lipinski, Bobek, Suguri, and countless others. Kwan won 5 world gold medals in this time but her competitors won 4 others plus 2 olympic titles. I guess Kwan should take it as a compliment, she was so damn good no one was even competition for her.
    I agree Baiuls competition was somehwhat weak in 93-94, and so was her technical difficulty. Interestingly though she lost both times at Euros, but probably still shouldn't have won 93 worlds over Bonaly and Chen. It seems once Kerrigan bombed the long, the judges propped up Baiul (who had the ballerina qualities) to be the next champion. Sato and Chouinard could've been formidable competitors but usually performed poorly at big competitions. So there was great skaters during this period, but they either habitually underperformed or weren't yet peaked (Chen). Had she stayed on past 94, I have no doubt she would be crushed by Kwan, Chen, Bobek, Slutskaya, Markova and even a rejuvenated Chouinard and Butyrskaya.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Linda showed amazing potential as a young skater. Little did anyone know the 76 Nationals was as good as she was ever going to be (apart from improvement in figures).
    Why do none of Frank Carroll's lady skaters have attractive spin positions? Technically they are good enough spinners, but Fratianne and Kwan both had blah looking, boring spins.

  20. #80

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    Karen Kwan had wonderful spins. Michelle Kwan may not have had the best flexibility or speed, but she had great classic positions (other than the layback) and they were usually well-centered and looked clean with a variety of positions (even if they were not the most versatile). I'm not sure about Linda, but I think spinning simply wasn't Michelle Kwan's forte. She did work with Evelyn Kramer in the 1999-2000 season to improve on them, and she did, but they still weren't baby ballerina or Slutskaya level (although I think Michelle Kwan had one of the best sit spins-backwards and forwards). Her spinning in 2002 and probably 2004-2005 seasons were probably her best without Frank, but even then they weren't the best of the competition with the likes of Cohen, Slutskaya, and Arakawa (although Arakawa's spins tended to be slow and without the donut, her camels would've lacked stretch).

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