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  1. #101

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    I'm sure building/digging a basement is more expensive than the F5 storm shelters(above and below ground) available to build or purchase in Oklahoma? From what I understand they cost a few grand but add value to a home. Hopefully some folks will look into this as an option for themselves and neighbors.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

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    From my cousin, who actually DID build a home in the red clay of Oklahoma, a basement isn't worth the cost or trouble. (They would have had to use explosives to remove the soil for the dig.). They are accustomed to dealing with tornadoes, so most buildings are pretty safe, but the tornado that sat on those schools was powerful. As one person put it, they'd have to build a fortress to withstand that much power. Kids would be in prisons with no windows for the other 264 days of the year.

    Those shelters are pretty pricey. I think most of the houses were built with hurricane closets, or safe rooms as part of the design. My house has a huge, walk-in closet on the first floor that a original owner said served that purpose, per the original builder rep. (We have the same house, but reversed - their garage is on the right, mine is on the left.)

    Several of her friends remarked that they feel people are being overly critical and making claims without sufficient know.wdge or justification. Most people are supportive of disaster victims, yet for some reason, OK isn't getting that treatment. I guess because of the kids who were hurt/killed at the school, people have limited sympathy. I remember feeling that the woman whose young boys drowned during Hurricane Sandy was at fault. She chose to drive a distance along the shore road with the intention of crossing the VZ bridge during a hurricane because she wanted to go to Brooklyn instead of the perfectly good shelter less than 2mi. From her home. Yet, no one questioned her choices, but everyone in OK is being criticized and second-guessed at every turn.

    Since hindsight is 20/20, I can only hope that any rebuilding is done with higher codes.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    That is unfortunate. Most houses here have basements and the ground is solid rock.
    Homes here are at a substantially lower price point than where you are. It's really not an option for most here to just pay another $50,000 or so for a basement. Just to give a sense, people live in Moore because it is is significantly cheaper than Norman (which it borders), but has lower crime and better schools than Oklahoma City (which it also borders). Adding on tens of thousands of dollars to the cost of a house puts it out of the price range of many Moore homeowners. If they could afford more, many would be living in either Norman or Edmond.
    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    They are accustomed to dealing with tornadoes
    Very true

  4. #104

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    At GreaterGood.com, you can click to assist in disaster relief for tornado victims:
    http://greatergood.com/thanks/
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  5. #105

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    Re the basement issue: According to an interview on NPR, basements have typically been a liability rather than an asset for several reasons: (1) heavy clay soil (2) very high water table, which meant leaks, leaks, leaks (until more recent technical gains in waterproofing methods) and (3) the rarity of a storm of this magnitude (F5, ie>200 mph).
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Homes here are at a substantially lower price point than where you are. It's really not an option for most here to just pay another $50,000 or so for a basement. Just to give a sense, people live in Moore because it is is significantly cheaper than Norman (which it borders), but has lower crime and better schools than Oklahoma City (which it also borders). Adding on tens of thousands of dollars to the cost of a house puts it out of the price range of many Moore homeowners. If they could afford more, many would be living in either Norman or Edmond.
    Very true
    I don't follow that. You said that homes in OK don't, typically, have basements. Do homes in Norman and Edmond have them? We don't pay extra for a basement, they just dig a foundation and the house has one. It just seems that basements would be a safety factor in an area with tornadoes.

  7. #107
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    You don't pay extra, but the basement is part of the cost. The cost up build them in an area where you have to dynamite, not dig, would be extraordinary. And they'd leak because of the water table. That's why we didn't have them in Texas.

    In Iowa most people have some sort of basement (ours is a half bc it walks out) but I know a very few who went with slabs because it greatly reduced the price.

  8. #108

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    Yeah, in areas where having a basement is the norm, slab houses are sometimes considered "cheap."
    Creating drama!

  9. #109
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    A large percentage of houses damaged don't even have home owner's insurance much less be able to absorb the cost of digging expensive basements that leak. Those who live where basements are common don't understand the geology and geomorphology of the soil in other parts of the country. Moreover, basements aren't the answer as everything above falls down into the basement. You have to have a separate underground storm shelter and most houses don't. They are little concrete bunkers with a door. Personally, I'd have to see the funnel cloud coming on a direct path before I'd go in one. I don't think I've ever seen one in a subdivision. Most people who have one are in rural areas. Trying to make community shelters is a good thought but really impractical. Storm chasers and Doppler radar can give about a 15 minute warning if you're lucky. You may have time to get to a shelter if you are within a couple hundred yards. And, the reality is out of every tornado watch, the percentage of tornados that form and touch down are very small. Most people don't get concerned until the sirens start going off meaning it's on the ground. Then you have minutes to act. Everybody expects a warning to be nothing like most are and are truly surprised when it turns out to be the real deal. Been there, done that many, many, many times. And, as Agal has said, people outside of Moore were impacted. They just got the TV publicity.
    Last edited by rfisher; 05-24-2013 at 12:47 AM.
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  10. #110
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    Most people don't get concerned until the sirens start going off meaning it's on the ground. Then you have minutes to act. ]
    They use sirens more liberally now, for thunderstorm warnings too. Anytime winds are I think 70 mph, even just bursts. To me, it is crying wolf. It used to be tornado on the ground, go now. Now it's more like "stay away from windows". We use a weather radio because the street sirens have become meaningless. Thunder lets me know there is a thunderstorm! Tell me if there is a tornado!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    They use sirens more liberally now, for thunderstorm warnings too. Anytime winds are I think 70 mph, even just bursts. To me, it is crying wolf. It used to be tornado on the ground, go now. Now it's more like "stay away from windows". We use a weather radio because the street sirens have become meaningless. Thunder lets me know there is a thunderstorm! Tell me if there is a tornado!
    I was on call once and on my way home when the weather radio interrupted in the car to say a tornado was on the ground on the highway I was on. They didn't say where. I was yelling at the radio to just tell me where! If you're at right angles to the path, you're OK. I just kept driving and went home.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  12. #112
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  13. #113
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    I guess it depends on where you live, but here the sirens mean a tornado has been spotted (ie, funnel clouds have visibly formed). For just a tornado watch or storm, there is no siren. But as rfisher said, funnel clouds form very frequently here, so people don't rush to safety just because the siren is sounding. Most folk will go out and survey the sky and horizon to see what's headed their way before hunkering down.

    It's pretty rare for strong tornados to his major cities here. Generally it's the rural towns that bear the brunt. In short, what rfisher posted

  14. #114
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    From one of my news feeds, Universe Today; Hi-resolution satellite views of the destruction from the tornado.

    http://www.universetoday.com/102379/...ahoma-tornado/

    It's the same where I live. It's pretty rare for a tornado to hit in my area, but on occasion, they have hit. A tornado touched down in my back yard in 2009. It snapped a large pine tree in two and it fell on top of my utility building. It sounded like a freight train, and I thought it was coming straight for my house. I was very lucky that it didn't get me and my home.
    Angie
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    Much of the area seems as though it were bombed.

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    delete
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  17. #117

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    Alternatives exist: An above-ground shelter runs $8,000 to $10,000... and a concrete cellar built during new-house construction would cost as little as $2,200, said Barnett
    This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread. Above ground shelter I think it referred to a F5 safe room and the concrete cellar is the F5 storm shelter.

    I wonder what the the percentage of homes in the areas hit have F5 safe rooms or F5 storm shelters? From what I understand FEMA is "suppose" offer some type of rebate if a homeowner builds/constructs a safe room or safe shelter.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    If you are in Austin, I don't see a problem for you. If you were in West Texas, or even in the DFW area, I would be concerned. I remember a time when I lived in the DFW area, and I was driving from out of town (still in Texas) and there was a Tornado warning; it was very scary.

    ETA: Poor Oklahoma City residents!

    From CNN:

    "Oklahoma resident: 'It's just devastating'

    Two men, both in their 70s, were confirmed dead as a result of a tornado that hit Shawnee, said Amy Elliott, a spokeswoman for the state medical examiner's office.

    When Kimberly Graham returned to the spot near Shawnee where her mobile home once stood, her 7-year-old son's orange bicycle was one of the only items that remained.

    "Home, cars, garage, everything -- gone," she told CNN on Monday. "It's just devastating. Everything that you've worked for. Everything that you've built."
    My thoughts and prayers are with the victims who were in the path of these terrible storms. For any fsuers in those areas my heart and prayers are with you! Please stay safe!

    I know Texas can get hit by those monster tornadoes too. I'm worried about my nephew. He enlisted in the Air Force and just went to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio. Do you know if that area is relatively safe? I served in the Army at Fort Sam Houston there years ago but all I remember is very hot weather in February/March.

  19. #119

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    More tornadoes in Oklahoma- any fsuers in Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Missouri?

    San Antonio doesn't have a very high risk of tornados. Doesn't mean none ever hit the area but its no more than most areas of the U.S. San Antonio, at least the last 10 years or so, has been quite dry and misses out on the big storms.

    We have warnings here all the time and the problem is that our listening area is so huge that the tornado can literally be a few hours in any direction away. So most people do not take them seriously. I've also had my specific neighborhood listed as being in the direct path of a tornado and nothing has ever transpired. I think they go by radar a lot and there is never one on the ground, just the potential (which should be a watch but the NWS has odd requirements).
    -Brian
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  20. #120
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    And now there are scammers. I'm not surprised, but it's totally disgusting.

    http://now.msn.com/scammers-targetin...lahoma-tornado
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

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