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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I don't care who picked it, I think Fosse is a great choice for P&B. Nathalie will be excellent in "Mein Herr." Like she said, why NOT use overused music? There's a reason "Sing Sing Sing" is so popular. There's a time to experiment and IMO, the quickstep SD is not it. I favor more traditional music for OD/SD. I didn't care for any of the more original choices for last year's SD like the Shibs, I&K, and C&B.
    I agree. What some people tend to forget is that the Short Dance requires you to skate on a precise dance music (Polka, Waltz, Quickstep, etc etc), and not only on a music that has the same rhythm of a Polka Waltz or Quickstep. Some ice dancers skated on a music that had the Polka's tempo, but it was not a Polka at all.
    A grumpy Canadian will always be nicer than a polite Milanese

  2. #202

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    All true. And your dance is supposed to have the correct characters of the chosen pattern dance, which weird stuff never does, like all the wangoes we had one year. There are supposed to be hits to scoring if the character is not right. Not the time to be too experimental.

  3. #203
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    Well, the one thing I noticed was the earthshakingly stunning comment from a French couple about an American virtue:

    "The training is very Americanized, which means that there are no rivalries on the ice, no jealousy. You are friendly and open with each other."

    I may faint from shock. [fans herself]
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    I agree. What some people tend to forget is that the Short Dance requires you to skate on a precise dance music (Polka, Waltz, Quickstep, etc etc), and not only on a music that has the same rhythm of a Polka Waltz or Quickstep. Some ice dancers skated on a music that had the Polka's tempo, but it was not a Polka at all.
    Yes, but in ice dance, people also forget that it is the "Yankee" Polka and even the music used for compulsories was frequently something quite "American" but played in Polka tempo. There are also a lot of country polkas as well as waltzes, so I wasn't surprised at all that there were teams that used a country theme.

    For this season's Finnstep, there is a wide range of music that can fit the tempo as well as the style. I think it will be fun to watch and look forward to P/B's interpretation of their popular selections.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conga View Post
    Yes, but in ice dance, people also forget that it is the "Yankee" Polka and even the music used for compulsories was frequently something quite "American" but played in Polka tempo. There are also a lot of country polkas as well as waltzes, so I wasn't surprised at all that there were teams that used a country theme.

    For this season's Finnstep, there is a wide range of music that can fit the tempo as well as the style. I think it will be fun to watch and look forward to P/B's interpretation of their popular selections.
    Axtually I was thinking more of Shibutanis' and Ilinykh/Katsalapov's Polkas, which in my opinion were not authentic Polkas, but only music which had the same tempos. I don't expect many innovative programs in the Short Dance, because, well, you are given a theme and a music genre and you are supposed to skate to it, therefore you haven't much room for experimenting.
    A grumpy Canadian will always be nicer than a polite Milanese

  6. #206

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    While I've generally enjoyed P/B's SDs, it's not like they were using super original music for them. So I'm willing to wait and see if they can come up with an interesting program even if the music choices are pretty inside the box.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    While I've generally enjoyed P/B's SDs, it's not like they were using super original music for them. So I'm willing to wait and see if they can come up with an interesting program even if the music choices are pretty inside the box.
    I will agree with you. P&B boast of their aesthetic being artistic and original. The past two seasons however, it's looked like normal plain ice dancing to me. There's not been anything so unique to them. Actually, in the past the choreography showed their weaknesses better than strengths at times. No matter, they have greatly improved.

    Igor's teams and individual skaters train like they have clear cut objectives and plans. His teams are ALWAYS working when they are on the ice and never just being idle. They also seem to really like to get the elements just perfect. It's so motivating and captivating to watch. Whenever i see his teams work as well as watch him work with his teams, it makes me want to work harder in my respective field.I have never seen him yell at a student or get pissed off because his teams all really train their best and work from the time the Zamboni driver leaves until he returns. Igor himself seems to appreciate incremental progress as well. There is an intensity about his work that he seems to always have as well as a true love for what he's doing..Hell... i wish i could work with him and i dont even skate anymore lol
    Last edited by arakwafan2006; 08-07-2013 at 09:34 PM.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    Axtually I was thinking more of Shibutanis' and Ilinykh/Katsalapov's Polkas, which in my opinion were not authentic Polkas, but only music which had the same tempos. I don't expect many innovative programs in the Short Dance, because, well, you are given a theme and a music genre and you are supposed to skate to it, therefore you haven't much room for experimenting.
    Agree with you here.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    I have seen them train and the difference is definitely noticeable. The distinction of movement, clarity in positions, speed, flow.. tons...
    Thanks. That is good news for sure. On the other hand, no matter how much they have improved, I doubt that judges will be willing to mark them accordingly. If they had done it a year or two ago, the judges would have had time to get used to their improvements and, perhaps, start to mark them in accordance with those improvements. Now they just won't know what to do. If what you write is true, P/B's chances of regaining that third spot will be better, but it's doubtful that judges will mark them high enough for them to get really close to the top two.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    In a perfect world I would love to see the day when the skating and only the skating spoke for itself but that isn't the way things work.
    Exacly my thoughts!
    I would still like the best skater to win regardless of her/his coach, regardless of reputation, regardless of nationality, regardless of politics... After all it is sports/art!

    Sad to see that skaters are forced to leave their preferred coaches. However, I hope the French team does well this season. They were the ice dance couple that by chance caught my attention with their 2007/2008 Organ Donor FS after 30 years of more or less ignoring ice dance. The early Pechalat & Bourzat routines were outstanding. I would rather watch programs out of the box accepting slower twizzles than technically brilliant skaters that come up with uninspiring routines. Having said that I am "old school", having the eighth figures test where it is all about technique and precision.

  11. #211
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    Igor got very good results with teams like C&L and C&B last season considering their talents. P&B are a better team those those two. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think gold and silver are a lock for any team.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    While I've generally enjoyed P/B's SDs, it's not like they were using super original music for them. So I'm willing to wait and see if they can come up with an interesting program even if the music choices are pretty inside the box.
    I will agree with you. P&B boast of their aesthetic being artistic and original. The past two seasons however, it's looked like normal plain ice dancing to me. There's not been anything so unique to them. Actually, in the past the choreography showed their weaknesses better than strengths at times. No matter, they have greatly improved.
    You're agreeing with yourself, not with my post... I specifically mentioned P/B's SDs, not all their programs, and noted that they were able to put together enjoyable programs despite not picking the most original music (not to mention the limitations of the SD format).

    I do think that they did more creative stuff when they were still in Lyon, but I think they are right to take credit for being relatively original. With some teams it seems like the focus is almost entirely on getting the points, while P/B try to go beyond that and present something interesting, even it doesn't always work out as well as they'd like.

  13. #213
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    I agree with Zemgirl. P&B have been one of the few reasons why I continued to watch icedance post Vancouver. They still tried to come up with something interesting every season. And true while it didn't always work their skating style and how they move on the ice together still makes them very watchable to me.

    I still think P&B have been a bit underrated this quad by both the judges and some of the fans. I'm not saying they should have streamrolled the top two but with the way icedancing is supposed to be judged (at least on paper) some segments of their scores should have been much closer to the top two than they have been. Especially before Fabians injury last season.

    I hope their training with Igor will at least keep them on the podium in Sochi. I really want an Olympic medal for them.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    Axtually I was thinking more of Shibutanis' and Ilinykh/Katsalapov's Polkas, which in my opinion were not authentic Polkas, but only music which had the same tempos. I don't expect many innovative programs in the Short Dance, because, well, you are given a theme and a music genre and you are supposed to skate to it, therefore you haven't much room for experimenting.
    I'm not sure that I agree with your use of the word "AUTHENTIC" to criticize the music choices of the Shibutani's and Ilinykh/Katsalapov. I realize you made the caveat that this was "in my opinion", and I would agree on a similar line of reasoning that their music choices were not as thematically "aligned" with the character of the "Yankee" polka. However, then the same could be said of choices made by others, including Davis/White (Giselle - nothing Yankee there), Pechalat/Bourzat (who Polka'd to French Can-Can), or any of the teams that chose Polkas of a more Germanic origin in terms of composition or theme.

    Latin American and Eastern European folk music of the rhythm (2/2) and character of the polka encompasses a fairly broad range. Authenticity is thus less of a question in my mind. I thought both teams were (admirably) trying to take more "out of the box" approaches to a rhythm/theme that was (in MY opinion) going to be on the OMG repetitive side.

    See below an excerpt from an article from my good neighbors down in Princeton:

    http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tm...ocs/Polka.html
    The polka is a lively Central European dance and also a genre of dance music familiar throughout Europe and the Americas. It originated in the middle of the 19th century in Bohemia, derived from the sounds of traditional farm equipment and is still a common genre in Latvian, Lithuanian, Czech Republic, Dutch, Croatian, Slovenian, Polish, German, Hungarian, Austrian, Italian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Russian, and Slovakian folk music. Versions are also found in the Nordic countries, the United Kingdom, the United States, Ireland and Latin America, especially Mexico.

  15. #215

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    So do those in the know agree that teams under Pasquale/Krylova aren't as refined or well-trained (at least in a COP competitive sense) as Igor's team? Is it just because Igor is that much better or is there something lacking with Pascale/Krylova's methods?
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    The polka is a lively Central European dance and also a genre of dance music familiar throughout Europe and the Americas. It originated in the middle of the 19th century in Bohemia, derived from the sounds of traditional farm equipment and is still a common genre in Latvian, Lithuanian, Czech Republic, Dutch, Croatian, Slovenian, Polish, German, Hungarian, Austrian, Italian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Russian, and Slovakian folk music. Versions are also found in the Nordic countries, the United Kingdom, the United States, Ireland and Latin America, especially Mexico.

    Yup. That's true. Polkas were big in Mexico during the revolution.

    The most famous ones are Jesse Polka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEr7KFsBEXU

    and Las Bicicletas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoJIKlHt3GE.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    I agree with Zemgirl. P&B have been one of the few reasons why I continued to watch icedance post Vancouver. They still tried to come up with something interesting every season. And true while it didn't always work their skating style and how they move on the ice together still makes them very watchable to me.
    Totally agree. E.g. I would sooner watch them skating to Requiem for a Dream than just about any other couple using the same music. I don't like overused music in general, but they are one of the few couples that makes an effort to do something different with it and not just the obvious.

    I really want an Olympic medal for them.
    Me too. [skategods, don't listen]
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  18. #218
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    Me three
    (although I hated their Requiem for a dream, and loved C&L's. Loved P&B's circus and Charlie Chaplin).
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    (although I hated their Requiem for a dream, and loved C&L's. Loved P&B's circus and Charlie Chaplin).
    C/L had the best Requiem for a Dream I think in any discipline - great concept, program and expression. P/B had really good programs in the three years before that (Four Seasons, Madness, Circus) and the season after (Chaplin); whoever told them to change the original music in 2009-10 should be ashamed of themselves.

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    I remember my ears bleeding after having to listen to that jarring, unappealing Requiem for a Dream music twice in close proximity during the 2010 Olympics FD. I remember being shocked at how much I did not enjoy P/B considering how much I liked them in 2008 (I didn't really watch skating in 2009). That and their boring OD just made it seem like they regressed big time. Glad to see they still proved to be interesting after that season.
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