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  1. #161
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    If a relative is consistently odd, and has always been odd (and many of the family's comments lead me to believe this is true of Castro), then when that family member does other odd things, in my experience the typical reaction is to try to ignore it. I have plenty of family members who either do odd things or things that I consider to be detrimental to their lives, but I'm not going to bring up the elephant in the room unless I have no other option because it will create conflict. Most human beings, I imagine, are the same way. I am not at all surprised that Castro's family did not bring up his bizarre behavior. It undoubtedly seemed the much easier option, and most people prefer the easier option. Most of the time, when we ignore our loved one's odd behaviors, it does not lead to such a horrific scenario.

  2. #162
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    Although we live a thousand miles apart I have been to (and stayed at) my sister's home at least a dozen times. I've never been upstairs. Not that she's prevented me but there's never been a reason to go up there. The only reason I've been in the basement is I preferred sleeping in the bedroom down there because it had it's own bathroom. If not for that I'd probably never have been down there, either. Once again, though, no one ever told me I couldn't.
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  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Who said they wish for it to happen? All that was initially said is that it does happen. Unless you're a big bad-*ss who can easily take care of himself, those convicted of certain crimes will either spend their time in isolation for protection, or (if it gets out what they were convicted of) often have to deal with 'prison justice'. There's no reason for me to wish anything on this Castro guy, because if convicted, I already know what awaits him. And yet again, I don't feel at ALL for sorry for what likely awaits him. Do you?
    I don't feel sorry for him or for what may happen to him while incarcerated, but that doesn't mean I wish it for him as others have stated. There is a justice system in place for a reason and I choose to have faith in it, even if it does fail at times. While vigilante justice is often tempting, it's a dangerous path to go down for many reasons.
    I'm honest, just not always in a nice way

  4. #164
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    It's interesting to compare the two high-profile criminals du jour. I haven't followed the Jodi Arias trial that closely, but from what I hear they are considering the death penalty because of the "cruel and unusual" manner in which she killed the guy. If they give her the death penalty for that, Castro better get it too. He was far more cruel to his multiple victims, and for a much longer time. Jodi's victim suffered, but it was over in a couple hours. The three women imprisoned by Castro.....physically and mentally tortured for years. The latter is far more evil, even though the victims survived.

    Of course I have heard legal folks talking about him getting the death penalty if found guilty, but only on the basis of his having induced miscarriages. Which is irritating; once again, the life of a fetus is considered a higher priority than the well-being of the woman carrying it.

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    It's interesting to compare the two high-profile criminals du jour. I haven't followed the Jodi Arias trial that closely, but from what I hear they are considering the death penalty because of the "cruel and unusual" manner in which she killed the guy. If they give her the death penalty for that, Castro better get it too. He was far more cruel to his multiple victims, and for a much longer time. Jodi's victim suffered, but it was over in a couple hours. The three women imprisoned by Castro.....physically and mentally tortured for years. The latter is far more evil, even though the victims survived.

    Of course I have heard legal folks talking about him getting the death penalty if found guilty, but only on the basis of his having induced miscarriages. Which is irritating; once again, the life of a fetus is considered a higher priority than the well-being of the woman carrying it.
    I don't think this is true. I think the reason that murder with cruel and unusual circumstances can carry the death penalty is because it's exactly that - it ends a life. Any other crime is not considered as severe - and therefore doesn't carry the death penalty - because it doesn't end of a life, and therefore it is, in theory, possible for the victims to recover.

  6. #166

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    Also, sometime in the 1970's, the SCOTUS said that it violates the Constitution to impose the death sentence in any case where the victim does not die.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    It's interesting to compare the two high-profile criminals du jour. I haven't followed the Jodi Arias trial that closely, but from what I hear they are considering the death penalty because of the "cruel and unusual" manner in which she killed the guy. If they give her the death penalty for that, Castro better get it too. He was far more cruel to his multiple victims, and for a much longer time. Jodi's victim suffered, but it was over in a couple hours. The three women imprisoned by Castro.....physically and mentally tortured for years. The latter is far more evil, even though the victims survived.

    Of course I have heard legal folks talking about him getting the death penalty if found guilty, but only on the basis of his having induced miscarriages. Which is irritating; once again, the life of a fetus is considered a higher priority than the well-being of the woman carrying it.
    Unfortunately the legal system would give him death penalty only due to the miscarriages caused by him. I think what he did to those women was worse than death, but legally he cannot get death sentence for that. I think in my book of morals the kidnapper of Jaycee Dugard also deserved the death penalty, but legally they could not give him that.

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I have a tough time having sympathy for this jerk and the guy who kidnapped Jaycee Dugard. They are scums and they deserve to be in prison, with no possibility of parol. I am not going to condone anyone attacking a prison mate, but if that happens, it is the result of the horrible things these evil people did to the innocent girls. They have 'earned' it. I see no reason to make their lives in prison 'pleasant'. As far as safety goes, prison rules are to be followed, that's all.
    I don't think anyone feels sympathy or wants to make their lives in prison pleasant. I want what you want - the rules to be followed. Having them secretly executed or tortured in prison is not following the rules.

    I am against the death penalty anyway, although that's more of a topic for PI. The USA is the only Western country which still practices capital punishment, and I won't pretend to understand why since this puts them in the same category as countries such as Pakistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia...and we all know what lovely human rights records those countries have.

    If there has to be a death penalty, it should be subject to very strict rules IMO. I can understand why it might be seen to be a good punishment for murderers, but in all the horror of what those poor girls endured, the happy ending to it is that they did survive. I think Castro should be put in prison for life without the possibility of parole. No one is going to visit him. He will have no control over his life or anyone else's, and he won't be able to beat women up, which for a controlling man who kept slaves in his basement is going to be exceptionally hard.

    And I actually never went to my brother's house at all when he was last living in the same city as me. We always met up elsewhere
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    I am against the death penalty anyway, although that's more of a topic for PI. The USA is the only Western country which still practices capital punishment, and I won't pretend to understand why since this puts them in the same category as countries such as Pakistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia...and we all know what lovely human rights records those countries have.

    If there has to be a death penalty, it should be subject to very strict rules IMO.
    The death penalty in the USA is subject to very strict rules. It does not compare with places like Egypt, Pakistan, etc. There are appeals over appeals, and the convict lives for many years before being executed. One reason to avoid death penalty, however, is that occasionally an innocent person gets convicted and gets the death penalty for a crime he did not commit. There have been cases like that, and I suspect it was rampant against blacks. It's better to let a criminal live than to make an innocent person die. I have mixed feelings about death penalty, and I have never been able to settle on either side for very long.

    I think a good punishment for these jerks would be to make them live in a small cell, with no interaction with others, no entertainment; just the necessities to survive. Let them live with the hell they created, until they die naturally.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    The Constitution is not about values. It is SOLELY a list of what the federal government does and is not permitted to do. The Bill of Rights is about what the federal government CANNOT do (prevent citizens from assembling, owning weapons, require them to belong to a particular church to serve in government, seize property without legal cause, quarter troops in their homes, self-incriminate, and in the context of this conversation inflict punishment judged to be excessively cruel or 'unusual'.) It's about limiting government power, not about granting rights or establishing values. The only real "value" it's establishing is strict limits on the national government.

    Guards encouraging other prisoners to torture someone would be a crime itself, not because it's cruel or unusual but because telling someone to commit a violent crime is a crime. Not caring if it happens to someone who's committed heinous acts against innocent people is human nature.

    And prison is not supposed to be comfortable or pleasant. If they're not going to execute someone, but not going to release them, it should be the minimum required to sustain life. There is no reason to make someone comfortable, healthy, or happy in prison if they are being kept there because they're a danger to the public.
    Everything you said are values, are they not? The Constitution certainly was founded upon values of the framers and drafters of the Amendments. People have to define "free speech" and "cruel and unusual" among a great many things. It's about restricting what the government can do, and yet why are there restrictions? Because there are things that the founders and we as Americans hold to be invaluable parts of life, liberty, and property.

    Many parts of the Constitution are vague, and let's not kid ourselves about values having nothing to do with the Constitution because both conservative originalists and/or textualists and liberal structuralists are in some way imposing some sort of values when they interpret the Constitution. Every high court judge is guilty of that because the Constitution's broad wording and the country's emphasis on having some sort of national identity and value lends itself to that. That is not to say they don't make reasonable, well-supported, and well-articulated decisions based on stare decisis and something explicitly or implicitly written or said by one of the founders or framers, but even that can be up to interpretation.

    Btw, the Constitution also applies to the States thanks to the Civil War Amendments and the idea of substantive due process which some don't like, but was an answer to some of the worst Supreme Court decisions that perpetuated a political process in which minorities and other disenfranchised groups were not able to participate in the political system (and thus create change democratically) due to rigging of the system.

  11. #171

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    I have always gotten a chill in my spine whenever I hear stories of what prison life is like. Prison conditions are horrible with all the drug use, rapes, gangs violence, smuggling contraband goods etc. I sincerely believe prisoners should be fairly and humanely treated as well as safeguarded from all of the above. However there are those like Ariel Castro, and the Boston bombing suspect who I would not lose sleep over if they were to be given some of their own medicine. But having these guys locked up in a tiny cage 23 hours a day for the rest of their lives sounds like a worse punishment.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

  12. #172

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    I believe Ariel Castro will do fine in prison. I don't think the Boston bomber will survive very long. JMO.

  13. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The death penalty in the USA is subject to very strict rules. It does not compare with places like Egypt, Pakistan, etc. There are appeals over appeals, and the convict lives for many years before being executed. One reason to avoid death penalty, however, is that occasionally an innocent person gets convicted and gets the death penalty for a crime he did not commit. There have been cases like that, and I suspect it was rampant against blacks. It's better to let a criminal live than to make an innocent person die. I have mixed feelings about death penalty, and I have never been able to settle on either side for very long.

    Yes, it is subject to strict rules. Some people (not you) have been suggesting that those rules should be ignored and he should be executed on the quiet, or that he should get the death penalty for his crimes, which don't actually qualify for the death penalty. My point is that if he were to receive it, it would be in a justice system no better than those of countries with flagrant human rights abuse that we seek to liberate and democratise. My point wasn't aimed at you, even though I quoted you
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by genegri View Post
    Nothing, absolutely nothing, can punish that man enough. But I hope we try.

    If that's not pure evil, I don't know what is.
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  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I have always gotten a chill in my spine whenever I hear stories of what prison life is like. Prison conditions are horrible with all the drug use, rapes, gangs violence, smuggling contraband goods etc. I sincerely believe prisoners should be fairly and humanely treated as well as safeguarded from all of the above. However there are those like Ariel Castro, and the Boston bombing suspect who I would not lose sleep over if they were to be given some of their own medicine. But having these guys locked up in a tiny cage 23 hours a day for the rest of their lives sounds like a worse punishment.
    How about you? Are you a perfect person? Haven't you done some things wrong in your life?

    Why don't we let you rot in jail?

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  16. #176
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    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  17. #177
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    Me, too.
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  18. #178
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    Third. I wasn't sure what the point of that response was.

  19. #179
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    Did anyone see the three girls' video messages that were released yesterday? It sounds like they have a really good group around them helping them through this, and I do so hope things turn out well for them all, poor things.

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    I saw excerpts of it. It was good to hear them speak so confidently. I was especially glad to hear Michelle Knight speak, since her well being was the least reported on. Now I hope the press leaves them alone to live peacefully.
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