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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    A part of this that makes my blood boil is that, even if he spends the rest of his life in prison, his life will still be better than his victims' were.
    Only if they put him in solitary...otherwise, just put him in with the general prison population and don't be too attentive with surveillance and the problem solves itself. It's a point of pride for more garden-variety killers, drug dealers, and rapists to take out notoriously twisted prisoners or at least make them suffer. Accidents and homemade weapons happen....

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by backspin View Post
    A part of this that makes my blood boil is that, even if he spends the rest of his life in prison, his life will still be better than his victims' were.
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Only if they put him in solitary...otherwise, just put him in with the general prison population and don't be too attentive with surveillance and the problem solves itself. It's a point of pride for more garden-variety killers, drug dealers, and rapists to take out notoriously twisted prisoners or at least make them suffer. Accidents and homemade weapons happen....
    Being in long term solitary confinement is really not something to look forward to, and I think it sounds like an apt punishment for Castro.

    I don't believe in execution (or rape) by inmate as a form of punishment that society should accept, even for the nastiest of criminals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Accidents and homemade weapons happen....
    And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
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  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Being in long term solitary confinement is really not something to look forward to, and I think it sounds like an apt punishment for Castro.

    I don't believe in execution (or rape) by inmate as a form of punishment that society should accept, even for the nastiest of criminals.
    ITA -- While I can understand that some feel intense rage and wish for "an eye for an eye," it disturbs me to think that some wish for murder/torture to be enacted by others in the name of "justice". The idea of lowering oneself (even in thought) to the same violent level of the perpetrator makes me cringe.
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  5. #105
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    I don't care one way or another, just saying what tends to happen to perpetrators of certain crimes in the general prison population. It simply is. Personally I favor execution or, I think technology has advanced we could develop true solitary--no need at all for human contact or even allowing the prisoner out of a cell ever, as everything can be monitored and accessed remotely.

    And of course it's always interesting what sort of crimes people who've committed fairly horrible offenses themselves consider beneath them and intolerable.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    The idea of lowering oneself (even in thought) to the same violent level of the perpetrator makes me cringe.
    Exactly. And while obviously it's not relevant to this case, there is the possibility of wrongful convictions. I would rather not imagine what someone like, say, James Bain went through.

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I don't care one way or another, just saying what tends to happen to perpetrators of certain crimes in the general prison population. It simply is. Personally I favor execution or, I think technology has advanced we could develop true solitary--no need at all for human contact or even allowing the prisoner out of a cell ever, as everything can be monitored and accessed remotely.
    They tried that in the 19th century with the idea of silent prisons, no interaction and very little sensory experience. Prisoners were meant to reflect on their actions and do penance, but it didn't go very well - many developed serious mental health issues. I'm not sure such a thing would be constitutional.

    BTW, existing supermax prisons/units already keep inmates in the cells for 22-23 hours a day, and allow them very little contact with anyone.

    ETA: I've been thinking of the three women and the many challenges facing them, and I'm especially concerned about Amanda Berry's daughter. She's probably too young to understand what her mother went through, but some day she will, and I'm sure it will be difficult for her. I hope they'll all get the help and care that they need.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 05-10-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    ITA -- While I can understand that some feel intense rage and wish for "an eye for an eye," it disturbs me to think that some wish for murder/torture to be enacted by others in the name of "justice". The idea of lowering oneself (even in thought) to the same violent level of the perpetrator makes me cringe.
    Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    ITA -- While I can understand that some feel intense rage and wish for "an eye for an eye," it disturbs me to think that some wish for murder/torture to be enacted by others in the name of "justice". The idea of lowering oneself (even in thought) to the same violent level of the perpetrator makes me cringe.
    I couldn't agree more.

    The whole point of the jury trial and "reasonable doubt" thing is to prevent abuse of the system. The number of people who would just happily lock people away without a key and without caring whether or not they are really guilty is just alarming.

    The same goes for punishment. I visited a prison once when I was in law school and believe me...it's one of the most depressing places on the planet. The prisoners may have a TV, but they're also in a confined place where they can't spread their arms out and turn 360 degrees, where they live in constant fear, where the days are endless and life is grim. It is a fairly apt punishment.
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    Mother Forgives Daughter's Captor

    Wow. I can understand the need to forgive, but hug and say "God bless you", wow.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    ITA -- While I can understand that some feel intense rage and wish for "an eye for an eye," it disturbs me to think that some wish for murder/torture to be enacted by others in the name of "justice". The idea of lowering oneself (even in thought) to the same violent level of the perpetrator makes me cringe.
    Agree - I don't think that the solution to violence is more violence, and I like the idea that anyone "deserves" what some here and elsewhere are suggesting. Do we really want justice to be delivered by other criminals, or to encourage people to bypass the justice system and conduct their own trial and punishment?

    I think it's more important than ever at times like these to uphold the principles of justice in a civilized society, and to set a standard of humanity rather than cruelty.

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    As details about Castro come out, I can't understand why NO ONE ever told police that he might be a person of interest, esp since all 3 women disappeared in his vicinity. He was on record of committing domestic violence against his wife which included not only beating her but locking her up & isolating her. For that matter, the police in his district had to know his history so when they got calls about strange noises coming from his house & about women calling for help, why didn't they take it seriously?

    As for Dejesus's mother, she sounds like a nut & if I were Gina I would get as far as possible away from her. Forgiving is one thing but to say you'd go up to him & hug him is insane. Gina was 14 yrs old - he raped a young girl & then kept on doing it! How does that compute to a mother hugging him & God blessing him? Many religions encourage forgiveness - does any of them say to do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    As details about Castro come out, I can't understand why NO ONE ever told police that he might be a person of interest, esp since all 3 women disappeared in his vicinity. He was on record of committing domestic violence against his wife which included not only beating her but locking her up & isolating her. For that matter, the police in his district had to know his history so when they got calls about strange noises coming from his house & about women calling for help, why didn't they take it seriously?

    As for Dejesus's mother, she sounds like a nut & if I were Gina I would get as far as possible away from her. Forgiving is one thing but to say you'd go up to him & hug him is insane. Gina was 14 yrs old - he raped a young girl & then kept on doing it! How does that compute to a mother hugging him & God blessing him? Many religions encourage forgiveness - does any of them say to do that?
    I haven't read the article but I don't think she's saying he shouldn't be tried for his crimes. I do know that apparently the Dejesus family are offering their home to Michele Knight. So they do sound like good people.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I don't care one way or another, just saying what tends to happen to perpetrators of certain crimes in the general prison population. It simply is.
    Exactly. The PC comments are funny. What do people think goes on in prison on an everyday basis? If people are so against rape, torture, and murder in prison, then they should be against anyone being sent to prison. And yes, there is a hierarchy in prison, and those convicted of crimes low on the hierarchy (and child rape and/or murder is the lowest of the low) suffer the worst. I won't feel at ALL sorry if Castro suffers while in prison, and it that means I'm lowering myself, so be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Exactly. The PC comments are funny. What do people think goes on in prison on an everyday basis? If people are so against rape, torture, and murder in prison, then they should be against anyone being sent to prison. And yes, there is a hierarchy in prison, and those convicted of crimes low on the hierarchy (and child rape and/or murder is the lowest of the low) suffer the worst. I won't feel at ALL sorry if Castro suffers while in prison, and it that means I'm lowering myself, so be it.
    So be it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    As details about Castro come out, I can't understand why NO ONE ever told police that he might be a person of interest, esp since all 3 women disappeared in his vicinity. He was on record of committing domestic violence against his wife which included not only beating her but locking her up & isolating her. For that matter, the police in his district had to know his history so when they got calls about strange noises coming from his house & about women calling for help, why didn't they take it seriously?
    I think that's pretty naive.

    Firstly, as the media have been so effective in pointing out, the hero neighbour also has a pretty extensive record of domestic violence. Castro has no record after a domestic incident in 1993. The crime statistics for that area of Cleveland could make Castro look like a saint with his record, and I'm pretty sure the fact he isolated his wife wasn't on the record...just the assault.

    Police receive hoax calls all the time. Something calling to say there's a woman and a baby in a house looking sad and like they want to leave doesn't give the police probable cause to enter, especially when they knocked on the door, looked around and no one was home. If the police started breaking into houses every time they received a call like that, there would be outrage.

    Thirdly, the police have no record of a lot of the incidents the media are reporting. For the most part, it's neighbourhood gossip and urban legends. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the day these girls were found, everyone was shocked and said they couldn't believe their friendly neighbour could have been involved. All the other allegations came out later, and just as with Jaycee Duggard, I think a lot of it comes from a community struggling to make sense of a shocking crime they don't understand.

    Even his kids had no idea, and they'd visited the house. The man is a sociopath. He was capable of carrying on in every day life as though nothing had happened, and while the signs make sense looking back, at the time no one alone had a clear enough picture to be able to connect the dots.

    As for Gina Dejesus's mother - I read that on the Daily Mail so don't believe for one second that they got the context right. She's probably just glad he didn't kill her daughter. She may have been quoted only partially, and or out of context. Who knows. Who cares? I don't think we can conclude from it that she's a bad mother.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Mother Forgives Daughter's Captor

    Wow. I can understand the need to forgive, but hug and say "God bless you", wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    As details about Castro come out, I can't understand why NO ONE ever told police that he might be a person of interest, esp since all 3 women disappeared in his vicinity. He was on record of committing domestic violence against his wife which included not only beating her but locking her up & isolating her. For that matter, the police in his district had to know his history so when they got calls about strange noises coming from his house & about women calling for help, why didn't they take it seriously?

    As for Dejesus's mother, she sounds like a nut & if I were Gina I would get as far as possible away from her. Forgiving is one thing but to say you'd go up to him & hug him is insane. Gina was 14 yrs old - he raped a young girl & then kept on doing it! How does that compute to a mother hugging him & God blessing him? Many religions encourage forgiveness - does any of them say to do that?
    I think it's admirable. What's the point of directing hate at a man who clearly is messed up, and will now have to be accountable for his actions. She's not saying what he did was acceptable or denying that it's despicable just that that level of hate has no business in her life.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    As details about Castro come out, I can't understand why NO ONE ever told police that he might be a person of interest,
    Actually, at least one person pointed a finger at him at the time. But there was no evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by made_in_canada View Post
    I think it's admirable. What's the point of directing hate at a man who clearly is messed up, and will now have to be accountable for his actions. She's not saying what he did was acceptable or denying that it's despicable just that that level of hate has no business in her life.
    I didn't see anything crazy about her remarks. I wouldn't be able to hug him myself but I think that says more about me and how I have trouble forgiving than it does about her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    So be it.
    I'm sure Castro would appreciate it if you became his pen pal and provided moral support ( right back at you).

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I'm sure Castro would appreciate it if you became his pen pal and provided moral support ( right back at you).
    That's what you take away from a person's belief that no one should be raped and/or tortured even if they're in prison? Ooooookay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Exactly. The PC comments are funny. What do people think goes on in prison on an everyday basis? If people are so against rape, torture, and murder in prison, then they should be against anyone being sent to prison. And yes, there is a hierarchy in prison, and those convicted of crimes low on the hierarchy (and child rape and/or murder is the lowest of the low) suffer the worst. I won't feel at ALL sorry if Castro suffers while in prison, and it that means I'm lowering myself, so be it.
    That's some bizarre logic. I'm against rape, torture and murder anywhere - prison included. This does not mean I'm opposed to the existence of prisons or to sending convicted criminals to prison; it means that I don't want people to be raped or murdered or otherwise assaulted in prison. While I am well aware that it does happen, I don't think society should accept it, and I most certainly don't think society should condone it. I don't feel sorry for Castro for having to go to prison, as his crimes appear to warrant that he spend the rest of his life behind bars. But I don't believe rape and murder should be considered appropriate (informal) sentences for anyone. Even if they are scum.

    And yes, what milanessa said too.

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