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  1. #21

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    I friggin' loved Meno & Sand. Their 95/96 short program is one of the greats of that decade, IMO. OMG, that spiral sequence...an indication that extreme flexibility is not required to make a great spiral.

    But their triple toes were rarely attempted--let alone successful. And a throw 2A was not difficult enough.

    For me, it was never about M&S not having achieved enough. I think they were quite underappreciated by the US. Maybe it was due to Michelle/Tara, underappreciated nonetheless.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    One thing that they did achieve that not too many have is a decent pro career. They were on SOI (and I think CSOI some years as well) for years, back when the tour was 40+ dates, plus they did the pro competitions, and if memory serves, a few guest starring roles on all the tv specials we used to enjoy.

    All in all, not a bad career at all.
    Their timing was right. SOI was a popular tour back then and they did come up with some interesting programs in it. The other US pairs that achieved more at the world level did not have the benefit of a SOI or a COI tour. Their careers ended when they retired from the amateur ranks (Babilonia-Gardner did tour later in their career, but it was already too late).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    He couldn't jump.
    That's basically it in a nutshell. Meno/Sand were still performing side-by-side 2Axels along with an easier side-by-side double jump when all the other top pairs had moved on to performing side-by-side 3toes along with side-by-side 2Axels. Also, other pairs were performing 2 sets of throw triple jumps while Meno/Sand were still doing throw 3Salchow and throw 2Axel. It sent the judges a message that the two of them couldn't keep up with the technical advances of the sport.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Well they were riding the crest of skating popularity in the aftermath of Nacy&Tonya scandal. And beside Kyoko & Zimmerman, what other top American pairs with any sort of name recognitions were available for SOI and those made-for-tv competitions? The producers weren't going to get "nobodies" to fill those slots.
    Obviously. The original OP asked why didn't they achieve more, and while others were talking about their competitive career, I thought it worth pointing out that they enjoyed a fruitful professional career as well.

  5. #25

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    To answer the question posed in the title of this thread, they were skating against G&G and all the dominant Russian pairs at the time, not to mention Canada's #1 pair team of Brasseur & Eisler, period.

    In view of that I thought they did F-A-B-U-L-O-U-S. In fact there's been no other US pair team since them that can even come close imho. Their record speaks for itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenni_Meno

  6. #26
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    All things considered, Jenni and Todd have had a great deal of success and indeed (after first meeting and falling head-over-heels in love) they have seemingly reached all of the goals they set for themselves on and off the ice. It was risky to split-up with their former pairs partners and strike out together. They did it and together they achieved what many thought would be impossible both short term and long term. Added to that, they are absolutely gorgeous looking in person and on the ice.

    They had a satisfying professional career together, and they are raising handsome sons. And they are also having some success as figure skating coaches. Best of luck and continued success to you, Jenni and Todd!

  7. #27
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    I think a key turning point in Meno/Sand's career would have been placing as the 2nd placed US pair (5th) at 1997 Worlds to Ina/Dungjen (4th).
    Had they skated a better LP, the judges would have likely kept them on the podium over Kazakova/Dmitriev (and considering the mistakes of Eltsova/Bushkov and Woetzel/Steuer, maybe even up to silver)

  8. #28

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    Short answer: they weren't good enough.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  9. #29
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    Simple. They had cardboard skating personality. Stiff and no emotion.

  10. #30

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    I think they had a pretty decent career, considering his age and that they didn't skate together all that long.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    I friggin' loved Meno & Sand. Their 95/96 short program is one of the greats of that decade, IMO. OMG, that spiral sequence...an indication that extreme flexibility is not required to make a great spiral.
    No access to YouTube right now or I'd look it up myself, so... please tell me that isn't the one there they used a horribly hacked up version of "Blue Danube" - whoever did the music editing for that program had absolutely no clue about musical continuity.

  12. #32
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    Lack of speed and side by side triples.
    They also weren't able to or didn't try to break out of their comfort zone.
    All that being said their long program @ the 95 Nationals in Providence was stunning and brought the crowd to their feet. Then it seemed they kept going backwards to the same program over and over again. Which surprised me due to the fact Mr. Nicks was their coach.

  13. #33

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    I love their "Blue Danube", but I was referring to their "Fantasy Impromptu" (Chopin).

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYScorp6 View Post
    Lack of speed and side by side triples.
    They also weren't able to or didn't try to break out of their comfort zone.
    All that being said their long program @ the 95 Nationals in Providence was stunning and brought the crowd to their feet. Then it seemed they kept going backwards to the same program over and over again. Which surprised me due to the fact Mr. Nicks was their coach.
    Yes, they just kept skating to Turandot year after year...

  15. #35

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    I have to smile at this thread; I had a friend who wasn't a huge skating fan but who loved Sand when he was with Kuchiki and LOATHED Jenni Meno because "she set her sights on Todd and STOLE him," LOL.

    Personally, I like them but thought they were rather bland compared to their contemporaries. Very white bread.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  16. #36

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    They didn't have the difficulty. They were consistent with less difficulty. When they medaled at Worlds it was typically because of others mistakes and/or a depleted field (1998).
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  17. #37
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    One thing people haven't mentioned is the frequent injuries they suffered. Todd Sand was fairly old for a pairs skater and couldn't ever seem to stay healthy. And then Jenni, who was normally a rock, had an injury during 1998 that affected her all season. Bottom line, they were never able to train long enough to build momentum. They'd spend the entire season battling to regain elements, versus trying new ones. Over the years, their programs got simpler.

    I thought they looked best in 1996-97 when they went to Rodnina during one of Nicks' retirements. They skated faster, tried the triple toes consistently (and landed them often), and had more difficult lifts and choreography. Didn't seem like they could quite handle it, though.

    The throw double axel wasn't as big of a problem in those days. It didn't hold back Woetzel and Steuer. And, until Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze, none of the top pairs was doing throw triple loop. In those days, a big double axel with a nicely held landing could carry as much weight as a small throw triple toe.

  18. #38
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    Judging was very crooked back then.

  19. #39
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    They were so boring. My Mom called them Ken & Barbie.

  20. #40
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    I remember after Sergei Grinkov passed away, I was interested in Meno & Sand because they were another pair who was in love and thought they may duplicate some of the same imagery I had seen with G & G. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. I don't know what it was. I can't put my finger on it. While it was obvious they were in love, they seemed very conservative in displaying it on the ice, like it was something they wanted to hold onto for themselves. I just remember G & G skating like they didn't have a care in the world and that they would stare into each other's eyes and still skate magically. They were touted somewhat as being the American version of G & G which I thought was a bit silly. Both couples were different.

    As far as their skating, all of the performances I saw involved a mistake by either or both of them, mainly in jumping. I think they could have gone further.

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