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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Real good question. I'm usually up for a well thought out poll, but those thinly veiled salutes to Kim Yu Na are just embarrassing. Her die hard fans (and Kwan's) need to get a clue - not everyone thinks your beloved is All That, and no amount of bogus FSU polls is going to prove anything.
    so true!!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    I'm really glad that every time someone on here used the word "best" a puppy isn't killed because it seems like some version of this thread it around in the trash can Every.Single.DAY.

    There will always be skaters who have superior skating skills to others, some that are better spinners, ones that delivered when it mattered, etc. Why can't we accept that there have been so many incredible skaters this sport has had, instead of having to find which one we find to be superior to every other skater that has ever existed and then trying to shove our opinion down everybody else's throat? We each have skaters that we consider the "best" and there is nothing wrong with that. What gets me are the endless threads about it and the repetitive arguments...I'm aware that this is the trash can but it really has been getting bad lately. Those were my two cents. You may know continue the Kim V. Kwan argument #14259604
    THIS. ALL OF THIS.

    I swear, it's getting beyond ridiculous . It kills me that there have been this many Skater A vs. Kim, Kim vs. Kwan or Who's the best polls and we're only a few weeks removed from the end of the season. I realize it's the off-season and topics of discussion are limited at best but someone can surely come up with something better than another best ever poll...right?

    Whatever. Back to Off the Beaten Track I go...

  3. #23
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    Look at the user id of those who always post a poll about the "best" female skater.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    Once in a great while you get the perfect answer to a thread question in the first post. In a nutshell that is exactly it. I mean it's not going to stop the 20 page pile-up, or the anger management issues, but I just thought that I would point this out..


    The OP obviously joined FSU after our fiercest Henie and Colledge ubers died out.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Look at the user id of those who always post a poll about the "best" female skater.
    The title "best skater" threads, and kimvsando and kim vs 00 threads were made by andofanatic many times.

    And most recently, Maofan7 made "kim would be best skater when she hit 2 OGM in sochi?"

    And Osmond vs kim thread was made by canadian figureskating fan.

    And Sotnikova vs kim thread was made by sotnikova's bot.

    Let Yuna alone...
    Last edited by karlon; 05-08-2013 at 04:41 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabybackhand View Post
    It seems best ever debates on this forum come down to just Kim vs Kwan and fans of each picking apart the opposing skater. This seems silly to me. Why arent people like Witt, Henie, Ito, Lynn, and some of the other serious candidates discussed.
    Because you only joined FSU last year, and therefore missed similar epic debates re Kwan vs Lipinski, Kwan vs Slutskaya, Kwan vs Hughes, Kwan vs Cohen etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by dorianhotel View Post
    Figure skating only became popular when Harding hired her friends to try and kill Kerrigan. Since that time the best skaters have been Kim and Kwan, thus they have the most support as possible best ever. Ito, Lynn, Yamaguchi, Fleming, Hamill, and whoever else was before Tonya Harding began the sport as someone more than a little sideshow a few people payed attention to.
    I think that's inaccurate. Figure skating has always been popular, in the US and Canada for sure, and I think in Britain and Russia as well as other regions with champion skaters. Lynn, Fleming and Hamill were household names long before the internet, and in Canada you can trace it right back to Barbara Ann Scott - before most people even had televisions. Outside of ladies, there were many epic rivalries, notably Boitano and Orser in the 1980s.

    Figure skating may never have been or will be as big as major league sports or Nascar, but it's always enjoyed a following, along with extensive coverage of competitions and prime time tv specials going back to the days when most only had access to about a dozen tv channels, so in other words, it had its fair share of voice in the media. And it's always been one of the marquee events of the Winter Olympics.

    Tonya vs Nancy didn't make skating popular - it simply boosted interest beyond the traditional fanbase at a time when the media universe - ie opportunities for coverage - were expanding rapidly. In addition, it happened during the unusual period when the Winter Olympics were held just two years apart, so even the "4-year fans" were more active that usual. Capitalizing on that heightened interest, a lot of players jumped on the bandwagon - promoters, agents, tour companies, tv producers, etc. Then post SLC scandal, many worried about skating losing popularity - but IMO, it was simply returning to normal, back to pre-1994. In the interim, the media universe as exploded, so while figure skating is still popular, it now competes for share of voice in a much bigger arena.

    And, with the internet, fans can now participate directly in the debates and thus the rise of more rivalries and debate, instead of just whatever ABC, CBC and the like wanted to sell us.

  7. #27
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    I am personally shocked when the best ever polls don't include Ludmila Neledina. She had a triple axel, and the most gorgeous spins ever.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Because Kim and Kwan were the dominate ladies skaters of the Internet era.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabybackhand View Post
    I guess, but I would think true fans of figure skating, who I expect are the ones who participate in a sophisticated internet forum such as this, would appreciate the many number of great skaters before them. Kim and Kwan might be the 2 best ever, but I dont think they are way ahead of everyone else in history the way Woods and Nicklaus are, or the way Phelps and Spitz are to exclude dicussions of the others. They arent even the 2 with the best careers or achievements. All of Witt, Henie, Heiss, Fleming, Szabo, Dijkstra, have had better careers with higher achievements than both Kim and Kwan, unless Kim wins her 2nd OGM, and even then maybe more than her still. Hamill and Yamaguchi too if you add pro careers.
    Many of us didn't follow Witt, Henie, Heiss, Fleming, Szabo, Dijkstra, Hamill, and Yamaguchi during their heydays. For some people it's hard to be arsed to get that interested in skaters you've only seen on youtube, no matter how awesome. I admit, I do - I rank Witt ahead of Kwan or Kim, and I have passionate opinions on dance and pairs events that happened well before I started watching. Not everyone is like this, though, and following in detail online gives you a sense of context you don't have when watching things from the past, because you're seeing it unfold, you're seeing the programs develop, you're seeing the skater go from unknown to world junior champion to world podium to world champion to two time world champion, etc. I remember the first postings of home videos of Yu Na from Korean national and local competitions, ironically by the poster named michelle k, as a skater to watch once she entered the junior ranks! This is totally different than reading a wikipedia entry that says Herma Szabo won an Olympics and 7 World titles including two in pairs (which is really cool).

    I consider Witt very innovative. She brought a more modern, musically engaging, and theatrical aesthetic as far as I can see, but that could easily go unnoticed by fans who started watching after this style became a mainstay. She was also technically strong in some areas, like landing the first triple flip, but if you weren't actually following that when it happened you're more likely to say "whatever, she only did four triples in 88." If Kwan or Kim had landed a jumping "first" (especially Kim) it would have been all over the internet, first the articles about her attempting it, the debates on here of will she land it and will others now need it, youtubes of the attempts, tweets from the competition practices, live streaming of the event, analysis of the protocol, debate about how many points it should be worth, discussion of whether it's too much of a risk... and that would remain in peoples' minds even if they rarely or never did that jump again.

    It's natural that these discussions tend towards the recent, and not only in figure skating. The internet really pushes it to the top. It's the difference between seeing the skater 2-3 times a year at Nats/Euros/Olys/Worlds to seeing all these events plus Grand Prix, B events, and cheesefests live or nearly live with all of the anticipation and quarterbacking that entails. It just makes every little thing that happens now seem so important.


    I agree with you, that these past skaters deserve their due, I'm just not surprised that they aren't discussed as much. I think FSU does a fairly good job, really... floskate and Maofan7, in particular, post a lot of informative stuff.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post


    The OP obviously joined FSU after our fiercest Henie and Colledge ubers died out.
    I believe FSU originated with the type-writer.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    I believe FSU originated with the type-writer.
    Pony Express

  11. #31
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    Nobody before the mid 80s current skating fans (for the most part) even know much about, and while they might admire, especialy Lynn, Fleming, Hamill, etc...dont know enough about to make an educated guess or claim or even opinion of them being the best ever. I dont think it is so much people just assume those are inferior, just that they are in a different time altogether and cant even accurately be compared as being better or worse. Amongst modern day champions the only ones who even come close to Kwan or Kim in achievements or status would be Witt, Yamaguchi, and maybe Slutskaya and of those:

    Witt- was a great champion and competitor but not the best skater, even in her own era there were better skaters even though she always managed to beat them.

    Yamaguchi- most people seem to think she was kind of boring, atleast as an amateur. Most everyone agrees she deserved her wins, but she wasnt the most memorable either.

    Slutskaya- most seem to regard her as a sloppy and overrated skater (rightly or wrongly) and she usually lost to Kwan when it counted, unless one factors events like the Grand Prix final heavily.

  12. #32
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    Well, I foresee the next poll as "Kim or Michelle or Yuna or Kwan. Which do you prefer?

    A. Calling them by their first name.
    B. Calling them by their last name.

    Do tell. Curious minds would like to know!!!
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    I am personally shocked when the best ever polls don't include Ludmila Neledina. She had a triple axel, and the most gorgeous spins ever.
    Ludmila Nelidina only had a triple axel, and that was before COP started dinging skaters for ur. I don't know if she would have survived that. She was nowhere when compared to top skaters. She cannot be on the 'best ever' list- ever. I don't have a personal dislike for Nelidina; actually I would have liked to see her develop as a skater, but she did not (not sure why- injuries?)

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorianhotel View Post
    Figure skating only became popular when Harding hired her friends to try and kill Kerrigan. Since that time the best skaters have been Kim and Kwan, thus they have the most support as possible best ever. Ito, Lynn, Yamaguchi, Fleming, Hamill, and whoever else was before Tonya Harding began the sport as someone more than a little sideshow a few people payed attention to.
    No way FS became popular because of Nancy vs. Tonya (and Tonya's friends did not try to kill her; just whacked her knee). FS had been popular for several decades before that incident. It's just that TV ratings caught on a sensational story at a key time (94 Olympics). Ito, Yamaguchi (and even Lynn, Fleming, Hamill- to a lesser extent) have been discussed many times on this board. Fans of FS always paid attention to talented skaters, and their performances. They still reminisce about them. Instead, Nancy vs Tonya story is pretty much outdated now. FS will always have a smaller fan base than some of the mainstream sports in the USA.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Ludmila Nelidina only had a triple axel, and that was before COP started dinging skaters for ur. I don't know if she would have survived that. She was nowhere when compared to top skaters. She cannot be on the 'best ever' list- ever. I don't have a personal dislike for Nelidina; actually I would have liked to see her develop as a skater, but she did not (not sure why- injuries?)
    I strongly believe, and hope, the poster you were quoting was being funny when mentioning Nelidina. I also wondered what happened to her though.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post


    The OP obviously joined FSU after our fiercest Henie and Colledge ubers died out.
    ... Not dead yet ...

  17. #37
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    Ludmila Nelidina only had a triple axel, and that was before COP started dinging skaters for ur. I don't know if she would have survived that. She was nowhere when compared to top skaters. She cannot be on the 'best ever' list- ever. I don't have a personal dislike for Nelidina; actually I would have liked to see her develop as a skater, but she did not (not sure why- injuries?)
    No, I was being sarcastic. I think she was known for having one of the most hideous camel spins ever. Other than the Axel, she was fairly bad.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    So it's all about hardware?
    You werent asking me but in most sports the best ever is the person who won the most. In tennis it is Federer and Graf. In swimming it is Phelps then Spitz. In alpine skiing it is Lindsay Vonn and Hermann Maier. In track and field it is Carl Lewis and Usian Bolt. In golf it is Nicklaus and then Woods. That is one reason figure skating is funny in that way in that the people who seem to be considered the best ever arent the people who won the most- in women Kim and Kwan and Lynn and Ito, none who have the best records, and in men Yagudin and Curry who also dont have the best records, and in pairs Gordeeva & Grinkov who havent won as much as Irina Rodnina. I am not saying it is wrong, but it is unique compared to other sports.

  19. #39
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    I think because the other sports have results that aren't dependent on subjective/objective judging. Yes, there might be questionable referee calls or other such human factors, but skating is not unlike other judged sports where people debate the merits of one's actual skill rather than just results.

    Look at the way football fans debate and analyze who is the best quarterback. It's a team sport, but there's still a lot of subjective debate regarding the objective numbers of yards, passes, interception, handling of pressure, etc. If we're just going by number of titles, you'd hear more support that Eli Manning is a better quarterback than Peyton Manning. And yet, that's not the case at all.

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    I would say Yagudin and Gordeeva & Grinkov won more then enough to be considered the best ever. Part of why they didn't win even more was either injury for Yagudin or going pro with Gordeeva & Grinkov after 1990 but when they competed they both were dominate.

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