Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,452
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970

    What makes a satisfying gold medal performance?

    Highest degree of difficulty successfully executed
    Cleanest performance
    Greatest audience connection during performance
    Most beautiful performance
    Best choreography and musical expression
    Skating with "heart"/attack/conviction
    Overcoming obstacles
    Culmination of an impressive body of work
    Personal favorite wins
    A dark horse delivers and is rewarded


    What else?

    What if several of these are contradictory in any given event, or mutually exclusive in principle?

    What should the rules encourage? E.g., do we want rules that encourage skaters to push for the highest difficulty or to hold back and focus on execution and performance? Do we want to put more weight on subjective, emotional criteria and trust that judges' emotions will match our own?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Skating with "heart"/attack/conviction + Cleanest performance (no visible/obvious errors). We've seen the sport go to both extremes. When difficulty was valued, mistake ridden-performances were being awarded. On the other end of the spectrum, extra focus on precision of individual elements leads to more conservative approaches in layout and sometimes the performances as well. It's hard to skate with abandon when you are focusing on executing everything well.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Adelina is a more than an acceptable Olympic champion to me.

    I love how she threw caution to the wind and skated like it was her last ever competitive performance!

    Yuna was skating in her last competitive event and I understand she had nothing to prove. She was better in 2010, maybe the best ever on Olympic ice.

    But in Sochi Adelina was the lady who seized the moment and made it hers.

    If Mao had not done so poorly in the SP I might be talking about her this way because I thought her LP was sensational. She went for everything and skated like an angel!

    Ashley certainly gave it everything she had - but talent wise she is clearly a step or two below the worlds best skaters.

    Polina absolutely outskated Julia (and a few others placed above her) but due to the pageant-like nature of figure skating and all officials associated with it past and present, she was HELD BACK. She must "wait for her turn" (boo, boo)

    What crap, but that's the way it goes.
    Last edited by MrLucky; 02-23-2014 at 07:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Highest degree of difficulty successfully executed
    Cleanest performance
    Greatest audience connection during performance
    Most beautiful performance
    Best choreography and musical expression
    Skating with "heart"/attack/conviction
    Overcoming obstacles
    Culmination of an impressive body of work

    Personal favorite wins
    A dark horse delivers and is rewarded

    What else?

    What if several of these are contradictory in any given event, or mutually exclusive in principle?

    What should the rules encourage? E.g., do we want rules that encourage skaters to push for the highest difficulty or to hold back and focus on execution and performance? Do we want to put more weight on subjective, emotional criteria and trust that judges' emotions will match our own?
    The two lines I bolded are what keep a majority of Americans from thinking of figure skating as a true sport.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,474
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    The two lines I bolded are what keep a majority of Americans from thinking of figure skating as a true sport.
    I would actually place "Skating with "heart"/attack/conviction" over those two, especially overcoming obstacles. We love that narrative in sport. Celski comes to mind, among many others.

    I think the idea that Yuna should lose cause she wasn't as energetic in emotion or that I/K should win Bronze because they performed with lots of drama and attack over people with a higher degree of techincal difficulty, would boggle most sports enthusiasts.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    806
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    The two lines I bolded are what keep a majority of Americans from thinking of figure skating as a true sport.
    I don't agree with Adelina's win but one quote that stood out from post-analysis of the games was the notion that if Kim skates perfectly, she should clearly win. I think this is what keeps casual fans from thinking it is a true sport. The predetermined aspect of it all and it's so true seeing the predictions from the majority of skating fans. It doesn't matter what other competitors do, as long as Kim is perfect. I might not like Adelina's skating but I admire her determination and belief in herself that she can overcome the odds to win.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    I would actually place "Skating with "heart"/attack/conviction" over those two, especially overcoming obstacles. We love that narrative in sport. Celski comes to mind, among many others.

    I think the idea that Yuna should lose cause she wasn't as energetic in emotion or that I/K should win Bronze because they performed with lots of drama and attack over people with a higher degree of techincal difficulty, would boggle most sports enthusiasts.
    I agree with you except for the part - we love overcoming obstacles. I am 100% sure there is no COP bullet for that one.

    Overcoming obstacles is important regarding the fan base but should never play a part in the scoring.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,474
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    I agree with you except for the part - we love overcoming obstacles. I am 100% sure there is no COP bullet for that one.

    Overcoming obstacles is important regarding the fan base but should never play a part in the scoring.
    I was addressing this...
    The two lines I bolded are what keep a majority of Americans from thinking of figure skating as a true sport.
    I don't think playing up overcoming obstacles would come off as unsports like to spectators, not that it's in the cop and deserves points. I've definitely seen calls by refs that may have favored a sympathetic player in close situations.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    I was addressing this...

    I don't think playing up overcoming obstacles would come off as unsports like to spectators, not that it's in the cop and deserves points. I've definitely seen calls by refs that may have favored a sympathetic player in close situations.
    Actually, I think I agree. Looking at the topic header again, it's about what can be satisfying, and many fans love an underdog.

    Lots of fans love the drama of seeing the hometown hero come trhough in the clutch too.
    Both of these factors could help make Adelina's victory more satisfying to many fans.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    5,616
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7222
    Adelina seized the moment and the essence of the games. And that is what makes the Olympics the Olympics. Her win was very much Tara Lipinski vs. Michelle Kwan. The abandon, the joy. They brought you right into their hearts. And backed it up with the triples. Sarah Hughes too (much as I hate to admit it) skated way beyond herself that night.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,511
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The people I like best winning

    I was actually more Ok with Adelina's programs watching on my big screen TV. Her excitement filled the screen. Carolina's Yuna's intimate programs really got to me when I watched on my computer screen.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by tarotx View Post
    The people I like best winning

    I was actually more Ok with Adelina's programs watching on my big screen TV. Her excitement filled the screen. Carolina's Yuna's intimate programs really got to me when I watched on my computer screen.
    In the second half of her LP Adelina pulled a Plushenko or maybe I should say a Katerina and started flirting with the judges and playing with the fans.
    She made it clear she was having fun and that everything she was doing was so easy.

    At that point Yuna's somber and introverted skating stood little chance of winning the PCS battle.
    And since Adelina clearly won the tech battle it was all over.





    I

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,424
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    Adelina seized the moment and the essence of the games. And that is what makes the Olympics the Olympics. Her win was very much Tara Lipinski vs. Michelle Kwan. The abandon, the joy. They brought you right into their hearts. And backed it up with the triples. Sarah Hughes too (much as I hate to admit it) skated way beyond herself that night.
    I hate the Kwan/Lipinski analogy. Lipinski had more difficult triple combinations than Kwan, didn't have any errors on her jumps and skated under the old judging system where top 3 in the short meant she had an equal shot at the title, where Sotnikova was overmarked in the short and shouldn't have entered the free skate on equal footing. Sotnikova didn't have any of those things over Kim that Lipinski had over Kwan. Plus Kwan and Lipinski skated on neutral ice and didn't have the luxury of a home country crowd cheering them on for four minutes/the pressure of an audience hoping they would fall, like Sotnikova and Kim did, respectively. It's not an apt comparison and never will be.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    582
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I really dislike the "skating with joy" factor. Seriously, some programs aren't giddy and joyful and it doesn't mean they're less worthy.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I hate the Kwan/Lipinski analogy. Lipinski had more difficult triple combinations than Kwan, didn't have any errors on her jumps and skated under the old judging system where top 3 in the short meant she had an equal shot at the title, where Sotnikova was overmarked in the short and shouldn't have entered the free skate on equal footing. Sotnikova didn't have any of those things over Kim that Lipinski had over Kwan. Plus Kwan and Lipinski skated on neutral ice and didn't have the luxury of a home country crowd cheering them on for four minutes/the pressure of an audience hoping they would fall, like Sotnikova and Kim did, respectively. It's not an apt comparison and never will be.
    I disagree and think it is a pretty good analogy. The heart of it being great energy and enthusiasm beat a more somber, cautiously skated performance.

    As to the SP, Adelina's opening 3T+3T is one of the greatest combos I have ever seen. Just spectacular and it hardly put her at a disadvantage.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,424
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    I disagree and think it is a pretty good analogy. The heart of it being great energy and enthusiasm beat a more somber, cautiously skated performance.

    As to the SP, Adelina's opening 3T+3T is one of the greatest combos I have ever seen. Just spectacular and it hardly put her at a disadvantage.
    You could argue Lipinski's win based on many factors and definitely without using ridiculous rationale like "energy" and "enthusiasm." Can't do the same for Sotnikova.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    639
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    You could argue Lipinski's win based on many factors and definitely without using ridiculous rationale like "energy" and "enthusiasm." Can't do the same for Sotnikova.
    I never thought Tara won so you got me there

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,222
    vCash
    1799
    Rep Power
    33132
    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    You could argue Lipinski's win based on many factors and definitely without using ridiculous rationale like "energy" and "enthusiasm." Can't do the same for Sotnikova.
    I disagree with this. Adelina skated very, very well on many levels. Frankly, I don't see the big controversy here, especially with her over Yuna. Carolina perhaps, but even then...
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by tarotx View Post
    The people I like best winning
    I was going to say the same!

    But then I was thinking about how it depends on which definition of satisfying we're using.

    "to fulfill or bring pleasure" = my being happy S&Z won in 2010

    "to adequately meet or comply" = my thinking the pairs results in 2014 were correct, even if I personally was bored to tears by the skating

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,452
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    Quote Originally Posted by moviechicko_o View Post
    I really dislike the "skating with joy" factor. Seriously, some programs aren't giddy and joyful and it doesn't mean they're less worthy.
    I agree with that.

    How about skating with freedom, speed, confidence, command?

    Those won't be enough if the technical content isn't there. And some music and choreography lend themselves better than others to emphasizing a sense of freedom over the ice.

    But for any given skater, any given program, those qualities will probably represent the difference between a good performance and a bad one.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •