View Poll Results: How would Nicole Bobek's '98 US Nats programs have placed at Nagano?

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • Gold

    2 4.55%
  • Silver

    1 2.27%
  • Bronze

    25 56.82%
  • 4th or lower

    16 36.36%
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 49 of 49
  1. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    One thing to remember is that under 6.0 the judges gave Chen credit for all 5 of her triples. Her last triple toe in the triple toe/triple toe was definitely not though and was two footed as well. Chen also had good in between transitions in that program. I still think it could have gone either way too, but I can see the case for her under 6.0 era standards.

  2. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    239
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Like I said though I dont see what justifies Maria's artistic scores being so much lower than both the Europeans that same year and Worlds the next year for the exact same music and choreogrpahy. Even if Nagano was considered a more artistic field, that alone cant explain all the huge gap in her 2nd marks at those events.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20774
    ^ the justification is that the 6.0 system is a rank scoring system.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,863
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40900
    And let's face it, Maria's performance really was that much better in Helsinki. I think in terms of actual performance and interpretation, Nagano was probably her worst outing of that routine unless there's a GP event I don't know about.

  5. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    ^ the justification is that the 6.0 system is a rank scoring system.
    Thank you. People are looking at these performances and marks with IJS hindsight. Bobek's was the strongest under 6.0 and would have been considered a clean, albeit watered down, program. All four would have had 5 triples counted (maybe 4 in the case of Bute, depending on the judges' perspective on her two-footing), but the other three were marred with errors, which impacted both sets of marks.

    Also, saying that Nicole lacked the reputation of either of the Russians and Chen is just plain false. Her scores at 1995 (2 fall LP program held up for a bronze) and 1997 Worlds (fall and double in the SP ended in 8th) - heck, even in the Olympic SP - prove otherwise. Chen was marked extremely conservatively and Slutskaya was on a downward trend. Butyrskaya would have had a slight edge, but nothing insurmountable. At the very last, Bobek was on par with Slute and Chen, with all three just behind Bute (who had arguably the worst skate, with a double, two-foot and tentative presentation).

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,204
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Bute was actually quite gifted in the free vis-a-vis Slute. Given how stiff she was throughout the performance and had questionable landings on a few jumps, she still managed to beat Slute who was much more confident and did 3 jump combos compared to Bute's none. IMO Slute's technical edge over Bute was more than sufficient to compensate the edge that Bute's presentation supposedly had over Slute. I think the judges were giving Bute the benefit of the doubt after considering the short program.

    Too bad Bobek didn't skate a clean and inspired short at Nagano or she would really put Slute out of direct running for the bronze after the short.

    This is how I would have placed everyone as was (but with Bobek as at US Nats)

    Short:

    1. Kwan 5.6/5.9
    2. Bute 5.6/5.7
    3. Bobek 5.5/5.8
    4. Lipinski 5.5/5.7
    5. Chen 5.3/5.8
    6. Slute 5.2/5.5

    Free:

    1. Kwan 5.7/5.9
    2. Lipinski 5.8/5.8
    3. Bobek 5.6/5.8
    4. Chen 5.4/5.8
    5. Slute 5.6/5.6
    6. Bute 5.4/5.7

    Overall:

    1. Kwan 1.5
    2. Lipinski 4
    3. Bobek 4.5
    4. Chen 6.5
    5. Bute 7
    6. Slute 8

  7. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    This is how I would have placed everyone as was (but with Bobek as at US Nats)

    Short:

    1. Kwan 5.6/5.9
    2. Bute 5.6/5.7
    3. Bobek 5.5/5.8
    4. Lipinski 5.5/5.7
    5. Chen 5.3/5.8
    6. Slute 5.2/5.5

    Free:

    1. Kwan 5.7/5.9
    2. Lipinski 5.8/5.8
    3. Bobek 5.6/5.8
    4. Chen 5.4/5.8
    5. Slute 5.6/5.6
    6. Bute 5.4/5.7

    Overall:

    1. Kwan 1.5
    2. Lipinski 4
    3. Bobek 4.5
    4. Chen 6.5
    5. Bute 7
    6. Slute 8
    One can dream...

  8. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    With Daisuke-san
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,714
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    At 95 Worlds judges showed they loved Nicole, and were ready to give her the world title, but she messed it up. Later, one should think the judges would cool down towards her, hence inconsistency and less stellar result, bad training habits etc etc, but at both Worlds 97 and Olympics 98, Nicole got really high marks, considering she missed almost all her jumps. (IIRC in Lausanne FS she landed one clean triple) The judges obviously still loved her. Imagine the marks she'd got if she had skated clean!

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,127
    vCash
    1554
    Rep Power
    17003
    I think Nicole peaked the year she won U.S. Nationals and World Bronze. By 1998 her inconsistency had started to affect her self-confidence, and you can't win Olympic medals without it. Evy Scotvold summed up her chances in Nagano (when asked by a reporter) as "trying to withdraw money from the bank when you haven't put any in". Scott Hamilton's famous quote about her was "When you have so many voices in your head, which one do you listen to?" referring to her constantly changing coaches.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •