4th or lower
I would have liked to see a another triple flip to assure a third place
The way everyone skated probably. However had everyone skated their best the bronze would have gone to Butyrskaya, with Slutskaya 4th, Szewcenko (healthy and skating) 5th, and Bobek probably 6th. What is the point of assuming Bobek the most inconsistent skater ever skating her best, and not give the same consideration to others who also didnt. As it was it was a crappy competition outside the first 2 and a by then technically weak (even when she skated somewhat clean) Lu Chen was able to win the bronze.
I think Bobek could have beaten Chen. I'm not a big fan of Nicole, but she had the 95 world title had she skated clean in the long. The problem with Bobek at that stage is she had discredited herself with the judges too somewhat. She had disastrous performances at almost all her GP's a few seasons before, melted down at 97 worlds etc. She had two good nationals in 97 and 98 though. Outisde of that I don't remember too many clean performances from her
On the actual topic of the thread, I think she could have been anywhere between 3rd and 5th, but I'd lean towards fourth. The emotion of Lu Chen's performance had the judges forgiving what were considered minor errors under 6.0 and I don't think a solid performance by Bobek would have changed that. I feel like the judges wanted to give that medal to Chen over anyone else.
IDK. I sometimes think the judges did not want to see one country sweep any podium, so they would've held Bobek down in 4th..
Another tantalizing discussion - where would Tanja Szewczenko's performances from the '97 - '98 GPF placed her in relation to a clean Bobek, as well as Bute, Slute and Chen?
I don't know. No combo on a triple jump (a split jump to Toe Loop counts under 6.0, but it's not really one compared to a Lutz/toe combo), and no second Lutz and no Loop...I don't think Bobek's Nationals performance was really that technically strong to say that the judges could not have reasonably placed her below Bute, Slute, and Chen outside not wanting an American sweep.
I'd be interested in seeing a source on this.The ISU voted in the spring of 1999 to allow an exception to Hughes based on her performance at 99 senior worlds. Hughes and Wagner even talked about being grateful for the ruling when she won Vienna Cup in the fall of 1999 and that from then on out, she never had to worry about junior competitions.
3. Competitors under fifteen (15) years of age as of July 1st
preceding the Championships, may not participate in an ISU Senior
Championship, unless they have been among the first three placed
competitors in the World Junior Championships held in the immediately
preceding calendar year.
The judges didnt usually give Chen any help but they sure did in Nagano. Butyrskaya and Slutskaya even with all their mistakes should have still beaten her. Chen was a very medicore technical skater for elite standards by then, even when she skated relatively clean technically without big errors. She was definitely given sympathy points by judges for where her skating was at that point, and it means Bobek would have had to skate lights out to beat her most likely, as she doesnt have the rep value of any of those other three by then and a U.S sweep is not something that would excite the European judges who were probably already disconsolate about the overwhelming Kwan/Lipinski dominance on par with V/M and D/W today.
I think the judges were also gifting Chen in Nagano to make up for all the times they screwed her over past- 93 Worlds, 96 Worlds, maybe even 94 Olympics. They knew it was her last competition so decided to make up a little bit of the times they wronged her in the past, but the problem is it just adds even more to already shitty judging over many years when they attempt their makeup gifts.
To be fair to the judges, the majority had Chen in 4th. What happened was that Butyrskaya was missing one more third place vote to make a majority and it came down to who had the least 5th place votes (or most 3rd/4th place votes). Interesting to note that none of the three had a majority of 5th place votes either.
This thread inspired me re-watch Chen, Butyrskaya, and Slutskaya in Nagano and I actually think their technical content was either more impressive than or at least on-par with Bobek's overall. Slutskaya did five triples, but she included a triple/triple and two other jump combinations. She did have two hands down on the Triple Flip, however. Chen did five triples as well, but attempted two other ones. Her flip wasn't necessarily a fall, but a step-out, and she attempted a triple toe/triple toe. Overall, she still had two Lutzes, a Loop, a Salchow, and a Triple Toe with a Lutz and Toe in combination (something Bobek did not have). Maria Butyrskaya's performance had a Triple Lutz (it's hard to tell from the CBS coverage whether it was a two-footed landing or a close free leg on the landing...), Triple Flip (not a two-foot, just stilted), Triple Salchow-Triple Toe Loop sequence, Triple Loop (scratchy but clean), a double toe loop, and then a Double axel/double toe loop. Butyrskaya may arguably have four triples (I'd credit her with five) and one Lutz (like Bobek), but she had a 3/3 sequence which is something Bobek did not have.
Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 05-07-2013 at 01:39 AM.
Butyrskaya still should have been 3rd on her own IMO. I dont understand how her artistic scores were so much lower than the Helsinki Worlds when it was the exact same LP (and yes Kwan didnt skate her best there, but the judges were willing to give her almost all 5.9s for artistry even before Kwan skated her LP). She didnt jump anywhere near as well as Helsinki so that would explain the much lower tech. marks compared to that event, but not the much lower second marks for the exact same music and choreography essentialy.
Even if Chen sort of did strong technical content, and had fewer outright misses than Maria and Irina, and the judges still loved her artistry, her jumps were weak, whippy, and barely rotated (or not even rotated), and her spins were absolutely abysmal. I would have given her 5.3 or 5.4 for technical.