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  1. #41

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    Susan - look at the ladies' protocols from worlds. Kim, Asada and Kostner all show 2 change foot combination spins, 1 with flying entrance and 1 without.

    There is no limitation on what the flying spin can be. The only requirement is that 1 of the 3 spins has a flying entrance.

  2. #42

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    As much as Alissa wants to make it to Sochi, I can't help wondering if her delicate hip is up to the challenge. She can't push too hard to return without stressing that hip, but she is up against a rigid time schedule.

    I believe that Alissa would have to compete at Regionals and Sectionals in order to vie for an Olympic berth at Nationals. USFS could send Alissa to Skate America (avoiding Regionals) and a November International B (avoiding Sectionals). But it's not clear that Alissa will be ready for competition by mid-October, and two competitions within two months might be too much for her.

  3. #43

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    Competing at Regionals (Eastern Great Lakes, Oct. 5-8 in Louisville, KY) might be a good way for Alissa to ease back into competition, IMO.

    She could be assigned to Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria, Nov. 19-24, which would give her both a chance to earn the Olympic minimum TES and a bye through Midwestern Sectionals (the same week in East Lansing, Michigan).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-02-2013 at 05:01 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  4. #44
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    Go Alissa! I would like to see you on Sochi ice!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    There is no limitation on what the flying spin can be. The only requirement is that 1 of the 3 spins has a flying entrance.
    Sorry, you are right.. I think when I read the rulebook descriptions my mind automatically went to the 3 spin elements in the men's Sp -flying spin in one position, change foot spin & combination spin.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    I believe that Alissa would have to compete at Regionals and Sectionals in order to vie for an Olympic berth at Nationals. USFS could send Alissa to Skate America (avoiding Regionals) and a November International B (avoiding Sectionals). But it's not clear that Alissa will be ready for competition by mid-October, and two competitions within two months might be too much for her.
    Either way, Alissa is going to be forced to compete twice in those 2 months, even though Regionals + Sectionals requires less travel and may be slightly less taxing. But if she's going to do well at Nationals, she probably really needs that competitive experience in the fall.

    Excuse me for venting about this once again (since this seems to affect at least one of our international skaters every year), but the qualifying system for Nationals is a joke. Sectionals should more important than Regionals, yet as long as you have a conflict, you can just skip Sectionals even if you had been forced to show up at Regionals. It's just a joke. As a National champ/World team member/multiple Grand Prix medalist in this quadrennium, Alissa has done more than enough to prove herself as a worthy international competitor and should have the freedom to arrange her fall competition schedule in a way that best suits her, her health, and her "comeback plan". The mandatory qualifying system should be for the less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance to represent the US internationally this year.

    It just irks me that it's of utmost importance that Alissa goes through the qualifying system (if she doesn't do 2 internationals), yet many a pair team (even lowly ones) have avoided the qualifying system all together due to a lack of entries. Why can't USFS just admit that the qualifying system ends up being silly in several instances? And in times of injury, I sometimes find it almost cruel. The whole system could use an overhaul for the benefit of the skaters. Okay, back on topic.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 07-02-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    As a National champ/World team member/multiple Grand Prix medalist in this quadrennium, Alissa has done more than enough to prove herself as a worthy international competitor and should have the freedom to arrange her fall competition schedule in a way that best suits her, her health, and her "comeback plan". The mandatory qualifying system should be for the less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance to represent the US internationally this year.
    .
    So by the same token Johnny Weir and Miki should get a bye from their federation? And how does one define "less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance", unles they get a chance to shine in the first place?

    Good luck to Czisny, but there's no getting out of competing internationally or nationally during an Olympic year if she wants a spot
    Last edited by jlai; 07-03-2013 at 12:21 AM.

  8. #48
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    Well said stjeaskategym. Alissa was the Grand Prix Final CHAMPION in this past 'quad' - that should count for something at least on par with having half of a pair team that may have earned enough ISU points. Seems almost cruel, and also cuts into a place in the qualifying system for a skater whose journey to this point is actually perhaps making it out of regionals and/or sections for the first time. I remember when something similar happened perhaps 2 or 3 seasons ago, and a senior lady at regionals who placed 5th missed out on a chance to have her season progress. Double cruel + heartbreak.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    It's just a joke. As a National champ/World team member/multiple Grand Prix medalist in this quadrennium, Alissa has done more than enough to prove herself as a worthy international competitor and should have the freedom to arrange her fall competition schedule in a way that best suits her, her health, and her "comeback plan".
    What do you mean, exactly?

    As far as I know, the only skaters who really get to arrange their fall competition schedule to any significant degree are the previous season's World medalists who get some say in which Grand Prix competitions they will compete in. Other than that, skaters have to be invited or assigned to international competitions, and if they aren't, their only option is to participate in domestic events, which, in the U.S. in the fall, means Regionals and Sectionals. Czisny, for example, cannot make the USFSA send her to Skate America or a Senior "B" even if she wants them to do so (and I'm not so sure she does).

  10. #50

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    Alissa would have to do an International B at some point to establish the minimum TES if she wants to qualify for Sochi. Presumably USFS would send her to a B if Alissa made it through Regionals and Sectionals.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    So by the same token Johnny Weir and Miki should get a bye from their federation? And how does one define "less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance", unles they get a chance to shine in the first place?
    A bye through to nationals, why not? By pulling the previously well known skaters out of the regionals/sectionals (assuming they're up to competing at nationals) then more skaters are going to get through and qualify for nationals. Though I'm guessing that as stjeaskategym specifically mentioned the last quadrennial a skater like Johnny might not be included since I think finlandia is the only competition he's done since the last Olympics, so he wouldn't qualify for the bye proposed.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Alissa would have to do an International B at some point to establish the minimum TES if she wants to qualify for Sochi. Presumably USFS would send her to a B if Alissa made it through Regionals and Sectionals.
    ^This.....

    I don't have an issue with USFS sending Alissa to a Sr B to establish a minimum TES score if her intent is to qualify for Sochi. But, to give her a direct bye to the US Championships, with no participation in a qualifying event (US Regionals or Sectionals), as others have posted, would involve scheduling international events for her to directly conflict with her regional and sectional schedules. That is certainly possible, but that also involves sending her out of the country, traveling, and I would also assume monitoring prior to those events to demonstrate readiness. That would be true for Johnny Weir as others have posted. Other skaters in this quadrennial that would qualify for this type of "bye" directly to US Nationals? Evan is scheduled for the SLC Sr B, IIRC, and also for SA SGP. As OGM, he has a bye to US Nationals. Other skaters who competed in this quadrennial that have had injury issues, changes of partners (and does that really qualify them for a bye?). If Emily Samuelson had a partner, would love to see her back at Nationals. :-) Same for Caitlin Yankowskis. Rachael Flatt would also be a possibility for this group of athletes. Looking at other 2010 Oly athletes that are missing.....Jeremy Barrett (coaching/shows), Amanda Evora (coaching, college), Mark Ladwig (wearing many hats these days!), even Tanith and Ben (retired). But this idea opens up a lot of possibilities for skaters who have contributed during a quadrennial, to have the option to come back for US Nationals, one OLY cycle removed from their last Olympics. Intriguing thought.

  13. #53
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    The Skating Lesson's most recent (6/30) episode of This and That says that Alissa is doing triples up through the loop and that her progress is right on track.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    A bye through to nationals, why not? By pulling the previously well known skaters out of the regionals/sectionals (assuming they're up to competing at nationals) then more skaters are going to get through and qualify for nationals. .
    I think there was already a lengthy discussion re: adding skaters to nationals and how that will cost US nationals organizers in terms of more ice time, facility use; in addition to a more lengthy discussion regarding fairness, what's really best for skaters regarding byes, etc. Every policy will be unfair to someone, sadly

  15. #55

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    Re-posting from another thread - Czisny competed at a club competition in St. Clair Shores, Michigan this weekend:
    Quote Originally Posted by maureenfarone View Post
    Did find Alissa's scores: SP 50.21; FS 98.58....no breakdown of TES/PCS available. Scores seem fairly good for her first competition in a long time and so early in the season. Maybe someone will give us a report if they attended the competition.
    Thanks for alerting me that the results are up (this comp. usually has not published their results so quickly).
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  16. #56
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    Alissa was the only senior lady competing

  17. #57

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    Good to see her back competing-

  18. #58

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    Relevant post-Champs Camp article excerpt from late August (link was originally posted in the U.S. Ladies news thread):
    Two-time U.S. champion Alissa Czisny, who underwent hip surgery in January, did not attend Champs Camp. Her coach, Jason Dungjen, reports the 26-year-old skater is making good progress: "The [double] Axel is going well, the triple toe is going well, and she is landing flips and Lutzes pretty much every day now. The only thing we really have left is [triple] loop and getting her back in shape for her programs. There is talk of sending her to France (Cup of Nice). She is doing a local competition in September, because obviously she has to do something 35 days before [an international assignment]."
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  19. #59
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    So by the same token Johnny Weir and Miki should get a bye from their federation? And how does one define "less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance", unles they get a chance to shine in the first place?
    This sort of whiny nit-picking is, IMO, just lame. (And I really don't get the relevance of the Miki Ando reference here.) Of course the rulemakers would need to decide where to draw the line. That doesn't make it a bad or unworkable idea. If the USFS wanted to change the criteria for Nationals qualifying, they would simply have to make some decisions. If it was me, I would draw it at 2 or maybe 3 years since a top 4 finish at Nationals for starters. (I said top 4 instead of 3 to acknowledge the pewter medal.)

    And how does one define "less established skaters who are not expected to have any chance", unless they get a chance to shine in the first place?
    This sentence makes no sense in the context of exempting past champion skaters from regionals-sectionals qualifying, since that change would not impact skaters who don't meet that criteria. Those "less established" skaters would get their chance to shine at regionals and sectionals, just like they do now. Besides, it isn't necessary to define "less established skaters" anyway. They just need to expand the criteria for qualifying outside of the regionals-sectionals process in specific terms like placements at specified events.
    Last edited by Susan M; 09-15-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  20. #60
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    To me qualifyin through past reputation goes against the idea of qualifying the best skaters based on how they are skating now

    I think Czisny is skating well, going by reports. She will get to nationals without the need of any rule change.

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