View Poll Results: Kim Yu-Na - the greatest of all time if she wins 2014 Olympics & Worlds?

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  • Yes

    50 52.63%
  • No

    43 45.26%
  • Don't Know

    2 2.11%
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  1. #21

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    Not weak in artistry, but also not particularly impressive.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    3F wrong edge, weak on artistry, etc.
    Technical specialist calling her flip edge change is pure nonsense. and for you to say she has weak artistry is laughable and completely crazy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Technical specialist calling her flip edge change is pure nonsense. and for you to say she has weak artistry is laughable and completely crazy.
    Actually even the commentators noticed the wrong edge at Worlds, so i wouldn't call it nonsense nor coincidence that it get called!

  4. #24
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    Called in the short but not the free??? her flip technique changes in 1 day does it.

    I think her flip has only been called a lutz twice in her entire career

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkatingAnalyst View Post
    The members of this forum have their own favorites.
    It is really meaningless to vote on this forum.

    but

    If the poll is conducted thruout the WORLD, YUNA will come out as the CLEAR WINNER with more than 70 % of total votes.

    Then... Katarina with 10 %... rest will be shared by Mao, Kristi, Midori... little girl who was Michelle's competitor(not well-known in the world...forgot her name.)
    delusional.

    how would your theoretical "world poll" represent everyone?
    it reminds me of how yuna fans freaked out when she won that stupid tiny facebook poll. I mean, are yuna fans this dense? I love her skating and think she is one of the all-time greats, possibly the greatest of all time (certainly of the past 20 years), but she also happens to be at the peak of her popularity in 2013, when the world practically lives online on twitter and facebook (and she is a superstar in her own country). If you go on facebook, katarina witt (who was huge in the 80's) has only around 20,000 fans (which is pathetic for a "celebrity" and might as well be zero), compared to Yuna's 1 million. there are minor youtube cooking channels with more than 10x the amount of fans that katarina has. but does anyone think facebook actually represents Katarina's peak of fame or notoriety? she is IRRELEVANT now. but during her heyday she was huge, probably one of the biggest global skating stars ever. most casual fans of a certain skater don't last the way fans of musicians, actors do (it's such a seasonal, specialty sport, for one)
    justin bieber also has TWICE the # of facebook fans that the beatles does. does anyone actually believe that makes him bigger than the beatles or that he'll even be remembered 10 years from now, much less 30, 40 years later like the beatles? things like facebook, current online presence and popularity are often more of a measure of recent relevance than anything else.

    no one denies yuna's popularity (especially her popularity within her own country), but yuna ubers seem deluded into thinking she's actually some kind of superstar outside of Korea, which is first of all CRAP, and second of all most casual fans of older skaters like katarina, peggy, dorothy, have moved on.

    most of the world outside of korea and skating fans don't even know who yuna is! but keep on dreamin..
    Last edited by shoocreme; 05-02-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoocreme View Post
    delusional.

    how would your theoretical "world poll" represent everyone?
    it reminds me of how yuna fans freaked out when she won that stupid tiny facebook poll. I mean, are yuna fans this dense? I love her skating and think she is one of the all-time greats, possibly the greatest of all time (certainly of the past 20 years), but she also happens to be at the peak of her popularity in 2013, when the world practically lives online on twitter and facebook (and she is a superstar in her own country). If you go on facebook, katarina witt (who was huge in the 80's) has only around 20,000 fans (which is pathetic for a "celebrity" and might as well be zero), compared to Yuna's 1 million. there are minor youtube cooking channels with more than 10x the amount of fans that katarina has. but does anyone think facebook actually represents Katarina's peak of fame or notoriety? she is IRRELEVANT now. but during her heyday she was huge, probably one of the biggest global skating stars ever. most casual fans of a certain skater don't last the way fans of musicians, actors do (it's such a seasonal, specialty sport, for one)
    justin bieber also has TWICE the # of facebook fans that the beatles does. does anyone actually believe that makes him bigger than the beatles or that he'll even be remembered 10 years from now, much less 30, 40 years later like the beatles? things like facebook, current online presence and popularity are often more of a measure of recent relevance than anything else.

    no one denies yuna's popularity (especially her popularity within her own country), but yuna ubers seem deluded into thinking she's actually some kind of superstar outside of Korea, which is first of all CRAP, and second of all most casual fans of older skaters like katarina, peggy, dorothy, have moved on.

    most of the world outside of korea and skating fans don't even know who yuna is! but keep on dreamin..
    Others benefit from their more recent status too, not just Kim. Are you seriously saying Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, and Evgeny Plushenko arent grossly inflated and overrated in these polls since they came in at the time skating exposure was exploding (in fact more than today) and they are more recent stars people saw as well. Based on achievements Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would be 3rd all time about, and Kwan is about 6th and 7th, and Yagudin and Plushenko are probably down the middle top 10 too, yet they are at the top of polls only since they are the most recent.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Technical specialist calling her flip edge change is pure nonsense. and for you to say she has weak artistry is laughable and completely crazy.
    True, the edge calls on Kim's flip is ridiculous. Kim is probably the best overall toe jumper in skating history, and her triple flip is one of the best in history beyond doubt.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    But she's the only two-time world champion. Katarina witt and Sonja Henie have much better career, Michelle Had a longer career than her.
    Kim also has weaknesses. 3F wrong edge, weak on artistry, etc.
    Yes, and those other skaters you mentioned had no weakness? Weak on artistry? You could say some of her programs are not very good, but weak "artistry" per se is not something you can accuse her of.

    Only a two-time world champion? LOL, as if her Vancouver Olympic gold doesn't matter and potentially a SECOND OGM won't count? Witt and Henie with better careers? Sure they do, when you blatantly ignore historical context.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Others benefit from their more recent status too, not just Kim.
    ..I never said that yuna was the only skater whose reputation is inflated because of her recent/current status. obviously she's not a special case so it would apply to others as well. but my response was to skatinganalyst's claims, so yuna became the focus.

    in fact, it repeatedly happens throughout history that the current great athlete of a sport is prematurely put at the top of "all time greatest" lists at the time they're competing (however i personally believe yuna already proved herself as an all time great not only for her technical and artistic prowess, but because of what she did for skating in her country).

    since they came in at the time skating exposure was exploding (in fact more than today) and they are more recent stars people saw as well.
    the west isn't the be all end all, kim gets more coverage in korea than any skater in the west, ever.
    anyway, this isn't about kim's status in korea..

    even comparing kim to more recent retired skaters is off the mark. i still consider plushenko a current skater. kwan and yagudin definitely benefit in these polls from their relatively recent careers but you can still see some minor effects from their retirements, even if they still dominate. much of their fanbases are effectively dead. kwan has been retired since 06, yagudin even earlier in 02. plushenko's overall legacy has been buffed up dramatically ever since he returned to compete in vancouver. even if he still loses some polls to yagudin, it's a lot less extreme. a decade alone makes a difference, forget skaters from the 80's, 70's and beyond. but i would say fsuniverse has a higher percentage of old time skating fans than is typical of the bulk of the current skating fandom in general. there are newer active skating communities where 90 percent of the members are very young and only seriously got into skating in the last quad.

    and you're also missing the point if you bring up the fact that certain skaters were on top during periods where their country had peak skating coverage and endorsement opportunities. some skaters were just much more popular than others at their peak regardless of achievements but due to other factors, that's a given.
    my point is that an older skater's fanbase will not be well represented online compared to a current skater, period. so if skatinganalyst thinks yuna is the undisputed most popular skater of all time outside of korea based on some facebook poll, he's dreamin'
    Last edited by shoocreme; 05-02-2013 at 11:59 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    Actually even the commentators noticed the wrong edge at Worlds, so i wouldn't call it nonsense nor coincidence that it get called!
    In almost all the commentary did not.
    I'm not sure you have seen what the country's commentary.
    all of commentary I've seen, They did not noticed it. (British Euro / Universal Sports / CBC / finnish commentary / France Euro) they all did not noticed the wrong edge during a program.

    Even in the british Euro, he said:"(terribly undermarked), She did 10 points better than that, it's ridiculous"
    Last edited by karlon; 05-03-2013 at 01:28 AM.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoocreme View Post
    most of the world outside of korea and skating fans don't even know who yuna is! but keep on dreamin..
    Hey, don't make yourself look fool like that

    Many many people who are not korean love Yuna so much.

    Many many people who are not skating fans, even don't know anything about skating, deeply moved when they watch Yuna's skating, they don't understand the technical, but they know it very beautiful and touching

    And Yuna is not simply a famous skater outside Korea. She is the biggest celebrity, the queen of CF with endless ads and also is super good looking, Korea wave is very strong all around the world, so it's obvious her name is VERY WELL KNOWN outside the country. Many fans don't even care she is a skater, just love her because she is Kim Yuna who is very perfect, this is the fact!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVS View Post
    Hey, don't make yourself look fool like that

    Many many people who are not korean love Yuna so much.

    Many many people who are not skating fans, even don't know anything about skating, deeply moved when they watch Yuna's skating, they don't understand the technical, but they know it very beautiful and touching

    And Yuna is just not simply a skater outside Korea. She is the biggest celebrity and Korea wave is very strong all around the world, so it's obvious her name is VERY WELL KNOWN outside
    I never meant to imply that yuna has NO non-korean or non-skating fans. my comment was meant as a very general comment referring to the mainstream public outside of korea. figure skating just isn't a big deal in general in most of the world. people like skatinganalyst try to paint yuna as a global superstar on the level of michael jordan.

    your assertion that the "korea wave is very strong all around the world" is an example of the same type of exaggeration seen above. it is huge in asia, especially southeast asia, and to varying degrees in the rest of asia, such as china. in japan it also has a strong presence although recently there is some backlash. additionally, some korean dramas have found success in a number of latin american and middle eastern countries. but most of these successes have been isolated, they are in no way indicative of korean pop culture truly becoming mainstream outside of asia, yet kpop fans continually exaggerate the success and influence of the korean wave

    you're probably the same type of person who claims that kpop is "huge in america" just because some kpop acts sold out madison square garden, or that kpop is "huge in europe" because the crowds of fangirls/boys who showed up to the airport (never mind that hundreds of other foreign acts manage the same thing..).
    the average person outside of asia doesn't know what kpop is besides gangnam style. you know who goes to those concerts (besides asian-americans and korean-americans)? the type of asiaphiles who are members of anime club and major in east asian studies ...
    Last edited by shoocreme; 05-03-2013 at 03:44 AM.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by shoocreme View Post
    I never meant to imply that yuna has NO non-korean or non-skating fans. my comment was meant as a very general comment referring to the mainstream public outside of korea. figure skating just isn't a big deal in general. people like skatinganalyst try to paint yuna as a global superstar on the level of michael jordan.

    your assertion that the "korea wave is very strong all around the world" is an example of the same type of exaggeration seen above. it is huge in asia, especially southeast asia, and to varying degrees in the rest of asia, such as china. in japan it also has a strong presence although recently there is some backlash. additionally, some korean dramas have found success in a number of latin american and middle eastern countries. but most of these successes have been isolated, they are in no way indicative of korean pop culture truly becoming mainstream outside of asia, yet kpop fans continually exaggerate the success and influence of the korean wave

    you're probably the same type of person who claims that kpop is "huge in america" just because some kpop acts sold out madison square garden, or that kpop is "huge in europe" because the crowds of fangirls/boys who showed up to the airport. the average person outside of asia doesn't know what kpop is besides gangnam style. you know who goes to those concerts (besides asian-americans and korean-americans?), the type of asiaphiles who are members of anime club and major in east asian studies ...
    Asia have more than half the world's population, about 60%, add up with a "few" success in america, western ... is it not huge? I'm not say "it's the best wave" or "it's the storm" or something like that, but don't deny its effect

    "The greatest of all time" obviously depend on own mind, every people has each "greatest", so don't bash or deny other's greatest.

    Example: You can feel free to say "FOR ME Witt (or anyone) is the greatest" and others will respect that, but don't say "Yuna is not the greatest, her fans are so exaggeration, do they think Yuna is bigger than other big names, keep dreaming ...." blah blah blah, it's not good

    So, for me Yuna is the greatest, i don't need to dream to know that
    Last edited by HVS; 05-03-2013 at 04:13 AM.

  14. #34
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    its all relative
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 05-03-2013 at 04:32 AM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVS View Post
    Asia have more than half the world's population, about 60%, add up with a "few" success in america, western ... is it not huge? I'm not say "it's the best wave" or "it's the storm" or something like that, but don't deny its effect

    "The greatest of all time" obviously depend on own mind, every people has each "greatest", so don't bash or deny other's greatest.

    Example: You can feel free to say "FOR ME Witt (or anyone) is the greatest" and others will respect that, but don't say "Yuna is not the greatest, her fans are so exaggeration, do they think Yuna is bigger than other big names, keep dreaming ...." blah blah blah, it's not good

    So, for me Yuna is the greatest, i don't need to dream to know that
    Saying Witt is greatest is a joke. I dont care how many titles she won, her skating cant compare to Kim, Kwan, or even Yamaguchi and Ito, even factoring in her era. Even in her own era she wasnt the best artistic skater. Caryn Kadavy, Anna Kondrashova, Tiffany Chin, and Rosalynn Sumners were more artistic, they were just all too inconsistent in jumps and didnt have the political clout of Witt. Yet artistry is her strength as her jumping is a joke. Atleast Henie and others were incredible in their own times.

  16. #36
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    Well, Katarina Witt was a great jumper. She didn't attempt the most difficult jumps, but the jumps she attempted were very good : powerful, distance, flow...

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Saying Witt is greatest is a joke. I dont care how many titles she won, her skating cant compare to Kim, Kwan, or even Yamaguchi and Ito, even factoring in her era. Even in her own era she wasnt the best artistic skater. Caryn Kadavy, Anna Kondrashova, Tiffany Chin, and Rosalynn Sumners were more artistic, they were just all too inconsistent in jumps and didnt have the political clout of Witt. Yet artistry is her strength as her jumping is a joke. Atleast Henie and others were incredible in their own times.
    Well, I said it as example anyway

    But really, that not a joke if someone else think her as the greatest

  18. #38
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    I see an evil conspiracy in this thread...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Saying Witt is greatest is a joke. I dont care how many titles she won, her skating cant compare to Kim, Kwan, or even Yamaguchi and Ito, even factoring in her era. Even in her own era she wasnt the best artistic skater. Caryn Kadavy, Anna Kondrashova, Tiffany Chin, and Rosalynn Sumners were more artistic, they were just all too inconsistent in jumps and didnt have the political clout of Witt. Yet artistry is her strength as her jumping is a joke. Atleast Henie and others were incredible in their own times.

    If only i could give reputation points.

  20. #40
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    I think Yuna will be considered the greatest of HER time. Same with Henie, Button, Witt, and so on. I just don't believe one can compare skaters from different eras, different techniques, equipment, not to mention the codes they skated under. Yuna and all those that followed from 1990 forwards didn't have to contend with compulsory figures. By the same token earlier skaters didn't have to worry about triple-triples, quads and so on. Earlier skaters like Madge Syers had to deal with discrimination in their sport (females were said to be penalized if they were 'too athletic'), Syers had to skate in a skirt down to her ankles, different boots/blades, and so on. There are just too many variables to compare skaters from different generations. It's just not possible imo. Oh, and let's not forget skaters of earlier eras who weren't white-they had to deal with the worst discrimination of them all. They weren't even allowed to skate in many competitions, represent their country, and so on. I could swear I once read (was it Boitano) a quote from an Olympic champion skater who felt that the greatest skater of all time was quite possibly in Harlem-but we'd never know for sure.

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