View Poll Results: Kim Yu-Na - the greatest of all time if she wins 2014 Olympics & Worlds?

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  • Yes

    50 52.63%
  • No

    43 45.26%
  • Don't Know

    2 2.11%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny158 View Post
    Under 6.0, Even Asada would have beaten Kwan easily. Her underrotated jumps and flutz never would have been a problem. Her 3A , superior spins and various steps would have made her a strong champion.
    She already proved that in 2005 senior seasons.
    If she competed under 6.0 she wouldn't have the same complexity of footwork and spins because IJS changed everything about how skaters trained their elements and structured their programs. Skaters didn't attempt to max out on the difficulty of every element under 6.0 for the sole case of difficulty. Even Sasha Cohen wasn't maxing out on spin levels when she first competed under IJS despite having the potential to, and under 6.0 her spins were even simpler. Mao often received inconsistent levels on spins in earlier years because she didn't hold positions long enough.

    It's one thing to compare skaters who were ahead of their time with certain elements to current skaters, but it's weird to transpose skills and competitions from one judging system to a past one. Without the first one there wouldn't even be the other.

    FYI Carolina Kostner has even better footwork than Mao yet received level 1's for it early on in her career. Assuming Mao would have the same footwork now if she had competed during the 6.0 era is bizarre
    Last edited by maladiegrande; 05-06-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny158 View Post
    Under 6.0, Even Asada would have beaten Kwan easily. Her underrotated jumps and flutz never would have been a problem. Her 3A ,difficult 3-3, superior spins and various steps would have made her a strong champion under 6.0.
    She already proved that in 2005 senior season. She crushed Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen that had beaten Kwan that year.

    Most of all, Asada would have been released from mental pressures worrying about executing precise jump technique.

    If you are talking about when she was at first senior season, in 06-07, I agree.

    But after that season, Asada has been had consistency problem;her 3A's success rate is 31%.. 3-3's does not exceed 50%.
    She could not often cleaner program. I can't remind when she had clean program last. In contrast, Kwan's best feature was the consistency.

    In 6.0 system, skaters need more cleaner/flawless program. It was important to have less mistakes. she is far from it.
    Last edited by karlon; 05-06-2013 at 05:14 PM.

  3. #83
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    Mao did dominate all the Kwan era skaters in her first Senior season as if they were juniors. The whole Olympics had an asterix around it just because she wasnt there, especialy when Arakawa who she beat like 5 times in a row won the title. However Mao it turns out is not even the best skater of her own generation of skaters, maybe not even 2nd best.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlon View Post
    If you are talking about when she was at first senior season, in 06-07, I agree.

    But after that season, Asada has been had consistency problem;her 3A's success rate is 31%.. 3-3's does not exceed 50%.
    She could not often cleaner program. I can't remind when she had clean program last. In contrast, Kwan's best feature was the consistency.


    In 6.0 system, skaters need more cleaner program. It was important to have less mistakes.

    Her incosistency mostly from her inconfidence about her jump technique under rigorous cop. It is interesting that inconsistency began with more rigorous jump standard in 2008 season. Under that strict jump standard, she cannot believe in her own jumps, which lead to inconsistency.

    Under 6.0, she doesn't need to doubt it.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny158 View Post
    Her incosistency mostly from her inconfidence about her jump technique under rigorous cop. It is interesting that inconsistency began with more rigorous jump standard in 2008 season. Under that strict jump standard, she cannot believe in her own jumps, which lead to inconsistency.

    Under 6.0, she doesn't need to doubt it.
    I have known differently.

    Many talented Junior skaters lost their form through a period of growth as like her. Now Adelina is such a case.
    she could jumps in the lightness body at a young age, but her technical foundation was poor, her jumps were destroyed while growth.

    Since 08-09 season (07-08 season?), she chose a strict diet to prevent it, instead of fixing the jump. At that time, she was very thin than now.
    Since 10-11 season, She began to fix all the jump technique.
    Last edited by karlon; 05-06-2013 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #86
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    Yu Na isnt planning on going to the 2014 Worlds or is she. Anyway yes she is best ever if she just wins the 2014 Olympics. She probably already is and doesnt even need to but it will only make it more obvious if she does.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlon View Post
    If you are talking about when she was at first senior season, in 06-07, I agree.

    But after that season, Asada has been had consistency problem;her 3A's success rate is 31%.. 3-3's does not exceed 50%.
    She could not often cleaner program. I can't remind when she had clean program last. In contrast, Kwan's best feature was the consistency.

    In 6.0 system, skaters need more cleaner/flawless program. It was important to have less mistakes. she is far from it.
    Mao is an enigma. When she first emerged people thought she was going to become the best skater ever. Yet now she wont even be remembered as the best skater of her own era. She was an amazing prodigy and already way better than Lipinski and Baiul were at the same age. Yet that and a couple years of some artistic improvement (but already technical decline) turned out to be her peak, and she is nowhere near that level in her adult years. So much talent, but bizarre coaching choices, program choices, questionable prioritizing in her skating. She sacrificed all her other jumps away for the triple axel, worked to get them all back, and now is struggling to combine the two. Years also of strange Tarasova programs, and never seems to have fully regarded her light and musical style of earlier years.

  8. #88
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    Is she even going to the 2014 Worlds? I thought she wasnt going. I am confused. Did someone hear the Koreans are going to make her go to the 2014 and 2015 Worlds to help keep spots for Korea, but then let her retire?

    Anyway she isnt best ever since her career pales to Sonja Henie. Henie has 13 World and Olympic titles. Kim only has 3 so far, and at most would probably get to 5 or 6. No comparision as far as I can see there.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Is she even going to the 2014 Worlds? I thought she wasnt going. I am confused. Did someone hear the Koreans are going to make her go to the 2014 and 2015 Worlds to help keep spots for Korea, but then let her retire?
    Yuna isn't going to 2014 Worlds. She made it clear that Sochi would be her swan song. At least that's how I understood her interviews.
    We all know what happened at 2010 Worlds...

    (.......Oh wait, she got a silver medal. It's not shabby at all result wise... Actually it's great! I meant we all know she wasn't happy to be there.)

  10. #90
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    Deleted
    Last edited by karlon; 06-01-2013 at 04:24 AM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Anyway she isnt best ever since her career pales to Sonja Henie. Henie has 13 World and Olympic titles. Kim only has 3 so far, and at most would probably get to 5 or 6. No comparision as far as I can see there.
    So do you think Sonja is the best ever because of her career?
    (regardless of Kim)
    And many of figure skating fans agree with that 'sonja henie is best ever' ?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post

    Anyway she isnt best ever since her career pales to Sonja Henie. Henie has 13 World and Olympic titles. Kim only has 3 so far, and at most would probably get to 5 or 6. No comparision as far as I can see there.
    Well this is only if you judge best ever by number of medals. With Yuna's speed and arsenal of huge triple jumps Henie couldn't even tie Yuna's skate laces.

    Besides didn't Henie win some of those titles in the days when something like 6 of the 10 judges were Norwegian?
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  13. #93
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    Henie only won 1 of her World titles since too many judges were Norwegian. That was her first World title in 1927 where 3 of the 5 judges were Norwegian and all 5 votes for her giving her the title. The controversy was so immense they implemented a new rule there could be only 1 judge per country. However the other 2 judges were Austrian and German, the two powerhouse countries which frequently worked together in collusion then and both voted for the sports then reigning Queen Herma Plack Szabo from Austria, so it was almost like 2 Austrian judges voting for her as well. Who really knows how that years Worlds should have gone.

    Herma was so upset by the result she immediately retired. She would have been going for her own 2nd straight Olympic Gold and 7th straight World title in 1928 had she won the 1927 Worlds. She also won 2 World titles in pairs, and would have been going for the Olympic Pairs Gold as well the following year had it not been for the controversial loss to Henie that caused her to immediately retire. With that string of titles in pairs and singles and no longer being overshadowed by Henie many might now be saying Herma Szabo was the greatest female skater ever, many moreso than ever say this about Henie these days for that matter. Such a shame that as it is she has basically become a footnote in Henie's rise to the top and nothing more.

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