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  1. #1
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    Kostner or Asada?

    If there must be true rivals in the ladies discipline, they must be the two. Kostner narrowly managed to edge out Asada at this year's Worlds. While Kostner made far bigger mistakes as falling hard or singling a jumping pass, Asada's relatively small errors tended to build up throughout the program, negatively affecting her scoring potential.

    Kostner is known for her disastrous Olympic experiences and other severe meltdowns. Over the years she seems to have learnt how to drive herself, although she still can't skate clean at the big events. Asada has also had her own struggles, especially after the last Olympics. She seems to be improving over the last season, but she has not completely recovered from her longtime problems.

    Both skaters have said they would end their competitive careers in Sochi. Of course, nothing is really certain at this point.

    Who do you think is a better skater at this point? And who will be remembered as the greater skater?

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    I don't know. I like them both. One is elegance and the other balletic. I wish them both all the best for Sochi.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

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    At this point a believe Kostner is the better skater. I think she has great potential to have huge scores if all went clean. Her components are just second to none in the ladies field right now and the judges are rewarding her for that. Her jumps look effortless and can receive much higher GOE than Mao could ever. However in terms of who will be remembered as the greater skater i think Mao wins. From winning JW with a huge score, landing 3 triple axels at olympics. Placing 2nd at olympics and world champion twice. In 2006 Mao was a prodigy and was considered the best skater of that time.

    My opinion may change after the next olympics

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    I would agree that Kostner is the better skater, but would also say that Mao has greater potential to deliver a signature performance. I would give the edge to a clean Mao over a clean Kostner is the technical content was equal. Though a clean Mao with 1-2 3A would be even be better.

    However, Yuna is serious competition to them both.

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    Carolina may be a better skater but Mao is by far the better artist and that's what counts in my book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Carolina may be a better skater but Mao is by far the better artist and that's what counts in my book.
    Does Kostner's artistry not appeal to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by munow View Post
    Does Kostner's artistry not appeal to you?
    No. She's very elegant but I don't feel she has the connection with the audience the same way that Mao does. Carolina's choreography reaches my eyes but not my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Carolina may be a better skater but Mao is by far the better artist and that's what counts in my book.

    In my book it doesn't. Artistry doesn't count for that much in figure skating and is very subjective anyway. Kostner is the better skater than Asada as far as speed, edges, ice coverage and jump quality are concerned.

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    Kostner is more of a skater's skater out of the two. I think everyone would agree.

    I also understand why a lot of skating fans adore Asada's balletic style and polished leg lines. Her flexibility has allowed her hit a lot of beautiful positions in spins and spirals. Although she is now 22, her stretch is still beautiful and better than most.

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    Heh Kostner should be so honoured... A few years ago, this thread would be laugh out of the box. Kostner sure has came back remarkably well.

    In my peckish view, Kostner for my nice savory afternoon tea musing. Asada for sweet dainty dessert. Kim for an utterly satisfying Michelin starred dinner.
    I expect the Olympic ranking somewhere close to my fine dining gluttonous experience complete with quality content and presentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Carolina may be a better skater but Mao is by far the better artist and that's what counts in my book.
    I totally agree. However, At 2013 World, PCS was not reflect that. 1st was kim because she did clean programs. But I thought 2nd should be given Mao, Mao's PCS should be higher than kostner.
    clean Kim got +3 than Carolina / Carolina with FALL got +3 more than Mao with several invisible errors. It was ridiculous to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I would agree that Kostner is the better skater, but would also say that Mao has greater potential to deliver a signature performance. I would give the edge to a clean Mao over a clean Kostner is the technical content was equal. Though a clean Mao with 1-2 3A would be even be better.

    However, Yuna is serious competition to them both.
    That part couldnt possibly be more wrong. Based on their current skating a clean Kostner would crush a clean Asada if they had the same technical content. Kostner gets much higher PCS and GOE from the judges and gets level 4s on her non jump elements so on what planet would Asada with merely the same content get ahead in that case. Mao at this point has no chance to compete with Kim or Kostner with similar content, and she knows it too. That is why when they came back she immediately went back to programs filled with 3axels and 3-3s galore, whereas before she knew she only needed to land 5 triples to be sure to win.

    The real question at hand is if Mao keeps her insanely hard jump layout what would happen if both she and Kostner skated clean now that Kostner is also doing a fairly hard jump layout again. I would still say Kostner right now but it would be very close and hard to say which way it would go. In either case Mao is not capable of doing her current jump layout cleanly, and Kostner is unlikely always to do a clean LP and couldnt even totally in 2011-2012 with the easy ones she was attempting, so we probably wont find out. More likely it will be who makes less mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    I totally agree. However, At 2013 World, PCS was not reflect that. 1st was kim because she did clean programs. But I thought 2nd should be given Mao, Mao's PCS should be higher than kostner.
    clean Kim got +3 than Carolina / Carolina with FALL got +3 more than Mao with several invisible errors. It was ridiculous to me
    PCS is about skating and interpretation, not balletic moves. I'm glad Carolina Kostner's skating and artistry finally got the marks they deserve

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    Asada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Carolina may be a better skater but Mao is by far the better artist and that's what counts in my book.
    Disagree. They are both beautiful on the ice but I think Carolina has the edge in terms of artistry, in particular the past 3 seasons. Mao has a beautiful, balletic style and all her positions look amazing but I think sometimes she plays it a little too save in terms of program choices. Carolina experiments with more different/unusual styles, takes artistic risks in her programs and totally makes her music choices her own. That's what makes her more of an artist, imo.
    Last edited by jiggs; 05-28-2013 at 08:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    I totally agree. However, At 2013 World, PCS was not reflect that. 1st was kim because she did clean programs. But I thought 2nd should be given Mao, Mao's PCS should be higher than kostner.
    clean Kim got +3 than Carolina / Carolina with FALL got +3 more than Mao with several invisible errors. It was ridiculous to me
    I am not sure Yuna scored higher than Mao on the program components just because she skated cleanly. Please remember that a flawed Kim with a fall still beat Asada on the PC mark by a little more than two points and a half in the free skate at 2010 Worlds. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    Between Kostner and Asada at this point in time, would these two ladies have similar content and both skate cleanly, Kostner would be the winner IMO due to her better GOEs and superior PCS as reflected in the judges' marks.

  17. #17
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    IMO, the only aspect of Mao's skating that can be considered better than Carolina's skating are her spins. I believe Caro is the better artist; she has splendid choreography and musical interpretation. Her skating skills and footwork are the best of any lady in the world from what I see. Caro achieves superior amplitude on her jumps when she does them well. She doesn't habitually under-rotate and she enters her jumps with correct edges. Now that she is injury-free, she attempts all of the 5 triple jumps that ladies are expected to attempt. Caro has the body lines of a ballerina, but her style is more modern dance; she has a very striking look. Kostner is definitely a serious gold medal threat to Yu-Na Kim if she were to go clean in both programs with all her planned content.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 05-29-2013 at 12:14 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    At this point a believe Kostner is the better skater. I think she has great potential to have huge scores if all went clean. Her components are just second to none in the ladies field right now and the judges are rewarding her for that. Her jumps look effortless and can receive much higher GOE than Mao could ever. However in terms of who will be remembered as the greater skater i think Mao wins. From winning JW with a huge score, landing 3 triple axels at olympics. Placing 2nd at olympics and world champion twice. In 2006 Mao was a prodigy and was considered the best skater of that time.

    My opinion may change after the next olympics
    Yep.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    IMO, the only aspect of Mao's skating that can be considered better than Carolina's skating are her spins. I believe Caro is the better artist; she has splendid choreography and musical interpretation. Her skating skills and footwork are the best of any lady in the world from what I see. Caro achieves superior amplitude on her jumps when she does them well. She doesn't habitually under-rotate and she enters her jumps with correct edges. Now that she is injury-free, she attempts all of the 5 triple jumps that ladies are expected to attempt. Caro has the body lines of a ballerina, but her style is more modern dance; she has a very striking look. Kostner is definitely a serious gold medal threat to Yu-Na Kim if she were to go clean in both programs with all her planned content.
    Interesting take on Kostner's style as a performer. I agree, she is a distinctive, exciting performer and that's one of the reasons I love to watch her skate.

    I'd have to point out about URs though. Although it isn't a very serious problem as it is for Asada, URs do affect Kostner's technical merit. The most glaring examples are her second triples and jumps with difficult entry. She needs huge momentum going into her jumps, and when not enough speed disallows her to fully rotate them she often double-foots and falls down i.e. 3T3T at Euros and Worlds this year (although at Euros it was borderline and no call was right) and 3S<< at Worlds.

  20. #20
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    I love both! I'm rooting for either one to win the gold in Sochi. (I like Yu-na as a person and know she's a great skater, but I just can't quite get behind her skating.) I would be THRILLED if they both skated their best!

    Can you imagine if Mao did her planned content from Worlds for the LP? If she's serious about keeping it all in, I'd suggest the following for next season:
    3x
    3f/3lp
    3z
    jump break
    2x/3t
    3s
    jump break
    3lp/2lp/2lp (seems like she might get more rotation in than a 3f three jump combo)
    3f


    I honestly believe that Carolina is capable of:
    3z
    3f/3t
    3lp
    3f
    2x/2t (or 2x/3t if she trains it!)
    3s/2t/2lp
    3s (2x if 2x/3t above)

    Unfortunately, with both, it is such a matter of headgames... With Mao, rotation is always a concern.

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