I do not know exactly when the judges made this trend. I worried about whether this is just made for some skaters who have superior skating skills.
Last edited by karlon; 05-03-2013 at 02:04 AM.
I think Patrick can (and will) attract more sponsors and such if he wins the OGM, but realistically he has a bit more of an uphill struggle for sponsors than Virtue/Moir and Joannie. Virtue/Moir and Joannie present unblemished, picture-perfect images to the mainstream Canadian public, while Patrick caused a lot of furor over his China comments. The mainstream public has no clue about 95% of Patrick's foot-in-mouth moments, but those China comments got him a lot of bad press, especially since they were featured in the Globe and Mail.
Last edited by vodkashot; 05-03-2013 at 05:26 AM.
Patrick Chan (whether u agree or not) DOES have greater skating skills, and transitions than all other male skaters. And im sure many have watched him live, but when i watch him, those fantastic skills and transitions make people go WOW which some people comprehend that to him having good performance/execution. And then also when people see all his transitions performed so well, then they comprehend that to mean he has good choreography because he looks nice doing all these steps and turns and body movements. Sure his interpretation is not the best, but skating skills and transitions is IS FAR SUPERIOR and in performance and choreography is is absolutely in top 4.
And yes his superior skating skills and transitions should allow him room to make a few mistakes. Same with Carolina Kostner, why would they spend so much time perfecting their components skills if they aren't going to be rewarded for being better than everyone else ? They are deservedly rewarded allowing them to make some faults.
Once again, get angry at him because of his comments not because he is rewarded for his superior skills.
I thought that Murakami has to be 2rd. Not as bad as Patrick Chan's case but i feel it is not right,too. Anyway Usually people think 'fall' should receive a larger deduction and cleaner program should have more advantage. Your opinion is not popular at all.
Last edited by torren; 05-03-2013 at 08:02 AM.
I can understand and i agree that ISU should consider bonus points for skaters who have a clean performance. Or that you want the ISU to penalize more for falling. But atm there is no such rule. Dont get angry at Patrick or Carolina because you dont agree with the system.
My opinion is that Patrick Chan is not superior to all his competitors on 4 of the 5 components, let alone "far better". If you're really a skating coach, you need to better understand the difference between different parts of a performance and their evaluation: skating skills ≠ P&E, and "looking nice" ≠ CH, as you mistakenly seem to believe. Chan is also not superior in all the technical elements. It is this insistence that he is so vastly better than everyone, at everything, all the time, that is a turnoff to many skating fans. I would also argue that a messy performance is not a great display of skating skills, but that is neither here nor there.
I'll leave Kostner out of this as she does not enjoy the sort of scoring compared to her competitors that Chan does.
The ISU does not need a bonus for clean performances. It needs to ensure that skaters are marked for what they actually do rather than what they can theoretically do. I don't care how good Chan's/Kostner's/Savchenko & Szolkowy's programs are on paper, I care about how good they are on the ice and in competition. And I happen to like Caro and S/S. As for the rest:I can understand and i agree that ISU should consider bonus points for skaters who have a clean performance. Or that you want the ISU to penalize more for falling. But atm there is no such rule. Dont get angry at Patrick or Carolina because you dont agree with the system.
1. Many fans have issues with the scoring system. As Patrick Chan is very much identified with IJS-friendly skating, sometimes criticism that should be framed as being related to the system is directed at him.
2. In addition, some people don't like Patrick Chan as a skater - because they feel he is not musical, because they think he makes too many mistakes, because his programs don't speak to them, or because he simply isn't their cup of tea.
3. Some people don't like Patrick Chan's public persona, due to various unfortunate comments over the years.
Not liking Patrick Chan's skating or persona are no less and no more "correct" than liking them. Same goes for any other skater.
Not only because of the rules. I have had doubtful in many cases.
Last edited by torren; 05-03-2013 at 04:15 PM.
In the end not liking Patrick because of his persona and comments is fine and i agree he can be a douche. Not liking patrick because he is not particularly musical is also fine. But dont hate on Patrick because the scoring system is somewhat flawed or that the judges aren't very smart. Although most of the time i agree with the judges results, because i believe he does deserve greater skating skills and transitions and choreography even if he falls and most judges believe this too. But if you dont agree, then dont hate on patrick, hate on the judges.
When in the hell are your going to understand we are not "hating on" Patrick???? I haven't seen many comments here that radiate "hatred." Some of us don't think his skating skills are the absolute best in existence, we think he is being overscored when he wins with falls, and yes, we get it, that's on the judges . He is very talented and has many good qualities in his skating. We also think he needs to WORK on some of his skills, particularly his jumps. That doesn't mean we don't respect what he brings to the ice. Some of the posters here, including me, are just not completely over the moon about Patrick Chan and continual posts about "haters" are not going to make us suddenly decide he's the best skater that ever took the ice. It seems that you and some of the other Chan fans here just cannot handle him being criticized in any way. Here's some news for you: criticism is not hatred. It's observing where we think a skater could make improvements, be it in their skating skills or in the way they handle interviews.
Plus it would help if your could understand that for the average person who is not a skater, skating coach, or very serious fan, it's hard for them to understand why a skater who regularly zamboni's the ice with his butt places higher than those who also have great overall skating and land all their jumps. Yes, he has edges to die for, but that's only one component of a performance. And pointing that out, again, is not "hatred."
Last edited by Yazmeen; 05-03-2013 at 04:49 PM.
"Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist
You and others may not be 'hating' on him Yazmeen, and I get it if you're not a fan, that's fine but some are just in it for pure hatred. Name calling and spewing out vicious disgusting statement, creating thread after thread all aimed at bitching about how much they don't like Patrick. But again that's not everyone and you are certanly entitled to not like him and not like his skating but it's getting a bit beyond with some of the people, and some of their comments, but then this happens not just with Patrick, he's just the target at the moment. He is not a perfect person nor a perfect skater but I don't think he deserves some of the thing that are said on here. Again he just skates he is not the judge, he does not score himself, as sk8ingcoach said aim your anger in the direction of the judges and the system when it comes to being bothered by his 'unjustified victories'. That is something he can not control.
And in any case, Patrick's "transitions" are NOT superior to those of every other skater.
Boy, weezy, jeezy ... we now have your permission to "get angry at Patrick because of his comments..." Is it possible we can just "get angry" at you for yours? Or maybe we can "get angry" at the judges and go on strike at events where Patrick wins with numerous errors???
Patrick, are you listening? Please stay on your feet, so these numerous Chan-fest threads on FSU can come to an end. But I guess that would unfortunately mean another target for uber ire or devotion would be singled out.
BTW, anyways some excellent points are being made by many thoughtful posters not riding a high horse.
No matter what any of us have to say, Pat may indeed ride his high horse and his SS all the way to Sochi Olympic gold. Let's hope if that's the case, he will ultimately redeem himself in the hearts and minds of all skating fans. A tall order at this point, but it only takes two mesmerizing and clean athletic/ artistic performances for him to do so. He already has the hearts and minds of ISU judges and the Chan gang.
Last edited by Eyre; 05-03-2013 at 10:18 PM.
I don't hate Patrick. Far from it. I actually enjoy watching his flow on the ice. However, when in a competition he is given marks that he does not deserve due to MULTIPPLE mistakes (I am forgiving of one fall in an otherwise well skated program), I do have a problem with it. The judges are not judging what the skater actually did in the competition, and that is the issue here. It has nothing to do with any of us hating or loving Patrick. However, you seem to be in the 'blindly loving' camp. You can continue to do blind worship; just don't put us down for being more objective.
I hope that kind of thing forces other skaters, and especially the young skaters (with coaches) to work on basic skating skills.
In the 90's, coaches were only focused on jumps, jumps, jumps. A skater with better jumps was prefered by coaches.
I really hope it will change.
The essence of Figure skating is skating skills, use of the blades, edges, transitions...
It's not like other skaters don't work on the basics. Many Japanese and Russian (and some N.American) skaters have excellent basics, transitions, edges. Patrick is extraordinarily gifted in that area. He is a natural. However, if FS is to be considered a sport, I want to see the athleticism encouraged, and not just watch skaters do edgework across the ice, and fall on jumps.