Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 128
  1. #101
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,592
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Patrick is the winner, but isn't a champion.
    And a comment like this is somewhat disappointing, but one that we're not supposed to really engage with.

  2. #102
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    He doesnt get respect because people dont understand this system. Whether he falls or not he still has the best skating skills in the world and people dont like when he is rewarded for that. Also he can be a douche
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I can understand people not liking Chan for some of the stupid comments he has made over the years. I agree that Patrick can be very self-centered, arrogant and stubborn. But people criticizing his results is stupid. He is clearly far superior in his overall skating skills than all other male skaters and he is reward the higher points, what is wrong with that. Yes he falls ( the same as kostner ) but their vastly greater skills place their components high enough to allow them to make a few mistakes and still be placed high.

    Dont show him respect because of his comments sure. But dont show no respect because of his results
    Only because the system? In the past, I've never felt this trend that Criteria for PCS is just only from skating skills.
    I do not know exactly when the judges made ​​this trend. I worried about whether this is just made for some skaters who have superior skating skills.
    Last edited by karlon; 05-03-2013 at 01:04 AM.

  3. #103
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    827
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Chan does have devoted fans who idolize him no matter what he does on the ice or says off the ice. But the one group that haven't warmed up to Patrick are corporate sponsors. He wouldn't have the financial difficulties he complains of if he were more circumspect when it comes to what he says to the press. He isn't getting sponsorships or endorsements because his habit of venting to the press make him something of a loose cannon, and a controversial sports figure is not appealing from a corporate point of view.

    Chan is his own worst enemy when it comes to being financially solvent.
    Can't say for sure but I think the reason he doesn't get sponsorship/endorsements is because it just doesn't happen much in Canada. Nobody's interested until the Olympics role around and then maybe for another 5 minute after they end, then it just goes away. It's been a complaint for years but nothing changes. I heard a comedian make a joke one time and I can't quote exactly but it went something like 'If you win one Olympic gold medal in the U.S. you get your face on the Wheaties box and a 5 million dollars deal with Reebok. In Canada you can come home with 10 Olympic gold medals and the best you can hope for is a promotion to Assistant Manager at Home Depot' Funny but kinda true, and kinda sad. We'll see if anything turns up in the near furture. He was one of the most prominent athletes featured before Vancouver so we'll see very soon if it happens again but I don't believe anyone is scared off by what he says. JMO.

  4. #104
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Right behind you
    Posts
    197
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Can't say for sure but I think the reason he doesn't get sponsorship/endorsements is because it just doesn't happen much in Canada. Nobody's interested until the Olympics role around and then maybe for another 5 minute after they end, then it just goes away. It's been a complaint for years but nothing changes. I heard a comedian make a joke one time and I can't quote exactly but it went something like 'If you win one Olympic gold medal in the U.S. you get your face on the Wheaties box and a 5 million dollars deal with Reebok. In Canada you can come home with 10 Olympic gold medals and the best you can hope for is a promotion to Assistant Manager at Home Depot' Funny but kinda true, and kinda sad. We'll see if anything turns up in the near furture. He was one of the most prominent athletes featured before Vancouver so we'll see very soon if it happens again but I don't believe anyone is scared off by what he says. JMO.
    Well, it really depends on the athlete's marketability and what they've achieved (i.e. minimum Olympic medal, probably). Virtue/Moir, for instance, signed that big endorsement deal with Roots after winning the gold in Vancouver and have a bunch of corporate sponsors like PricewaterhouseCoopers. Also, even though Joannie Rochette didn't win an Olympic gold, her heart-affirming story got her a LOT of sponsors and endorsements after the Olympics, including Birks jewellery, General Mills and Lasik.

    I think Patrick can (and will) attract more sponsors and such if he wins the OGM, but realistically he has a bit more of an uphill struggle for sponsors than Virtue/Moir and Joannie. Virtue/Moir and Joannie present unblemished, picture-perfect images to the mainstream Canadian public, while Patrick caused a lot of furor over his China comments. The mainstream public has no clue about 95% of Patrick's foot-in-mouth moments, but those China comments got him a lot of bad press, especially since they were featured in the Globe and Mail.
    Last edited by vodkashot; 05-03-2013 at 04:26 AM.

  5. #105
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kostner #1 Fan
    Posts
    451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Patrick Chan (whether u agree or not) DOES have greater skating skills, and transitions than all other male skaters. And im sure many have watched him live, but when i watch him, those fantastic skills and transitions make people go WOW which some people comprehend that to him having good performance/execution. And then also when people see all his transitions performed so well, then they comprehend that to mean he has good choreography because he looks nice doing all these steps and turns and body movements. Sure his interpretation is not the best, but skating skills and transitions is IS FAR SUPERIOR and in performance and choreography is is absolutely in top 4.

    And yes his superior skating skills and transitions should allow him room to make a few mistakes. Same with Carolina Kostner, why would they spend so much time perfecting their components skills if they aren't going to be rewarded for being better than everyone else ? They are deservedly rewarded allowing them to make some faults.

    Once again, get angry at him because of his comments not because he is rewarded for his superior skills.

  6. #106
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    132
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Patrick Chan (whether u agree or not) DOES have greater skating skills, and transitions than all other male skaters. And im sure many have watched him live, but when i watch him, those fantastic skills and transitions make people go WOW which some people comprehend that to him having good performance/execution. And then also when people see all his transitions performed so well, then they comprehend that to mean he has good choreography because he looks nice doing all these steps and turns and body movements. Sure his interpretation is not the best, but skating skills and transitions is IS FAR SUPERIOR and in performance and choreography is is absolutely in top 4.

    And yes his superior skating skills and transitions should allow him room to make a few mistakes. Same with Carolina Kostner, why would they spend so much time perfecting their components skills if they aren't going to be rewarded for being better than everyone else ? They are deservedly rewarded allowing them to make some faults.

    Once again, get angry at him because of his comments not because he is rewarded for his superior skills.
    In 2013 world, Carolina kostner was ranked first in all category in PCS with one fall on 3-3. she beat Murakami, Osmond who have higher BV, have Clean programs and took second place in the SP. LoL!
    I thought that Murakami has to be 2rd. Not as bad as Patrick Chan's case but i feel it is not right,too. Anyway Usually people think 'fall' should receive a larger deduction and cleaner program should have more advantage. Your opinion is not popular at all.
    Last edited by torren; 05-03-2013 at 07:02 AM.

  7. #107
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kostner #1 Fan
    Posts
    451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    In 2013 world, Carolina kostner was ranked first in all category in PCS with one fall on 3-3. she beat Murakami, Osmond who have higher BV, have Clean programs and took second place in the SP. LoL!
    I thought that Murakami has to be 2rd. Not as bad as Patrick Chan's case but i feel it is not right,too. Anyway Usually people think 'fall' should receive a larger deduction and cleaner program should have more advantage. Your opinion is not popular at all.
    But my argument is correct. Patrick and Carolina have far greater skills in 4/5 components than any other skater. They are then rewarded for their superior skills. They are still deducted the same way as everyone else. They are given -1 fort he fall and a -2/-3 on the faulted element. It is completely fair

    I can understand and i agree that ISU should consider bonus points for skaters who have a clean performance. Or that you want the ISU to penalize more for falling. But atm there is no such rule. Dont get angry at Patrick or Carolina because you dont agree with the system.

  8. #108

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,680
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    But my argument is correct. Patrick and Carolina have far greater skills in 4/5 components than any other skater. They are then rewarded for their superior skills. They are still deducted the same way as everyone else. They are given -1 fort he fall and a -2/-3 on the faulted element. It is completely fair
    Your argument is a subjective opinion. It is neither correct nor incorrect.

    My opinion is that Patrick Chan is not superior to all his competitors on 4 of the 5 components, let alone "far better". If you're really a skating coach, you need to better understand the difference between different parts of a performance and their evaluation: skating skills ≠ P&E, and "looking nice" ≠ CH, as you mistakenly seem to believe. Chan is also not superior in all the technical elements. It is this insistence that he is so vastly better than everyone, at everything, all the time, that is a turnoff to many skating fans. I would also argue that a messy performance is not a great display of skating skills, but that is neither here nor there.

    I'll leave Kostner out of this as she does not enjoy the sort of scoring compared to her competitors that Chan does.

    I can understand and i agree that ISU should consider bonus points for skaters who have a clean performance. Or that you want the ISU to penalize more for falling. But atm there is no such rule. Dont get angry at Patrick or Carolina because you dont agree with the system.
    The ISU does not need a bonus for clean performances. It needs to ensure that skaters are marked for what they actually do rather than what they can theoretically do. I don't care how good Chan's/Kostner's/Savchenko & Szolkowy's programs are on paper, I care about how good they are on the ice and in competition. And I happen to like Caro and S/S. As for the rest:

    1. Many fans have issues with the scoring system. As Patrick Chan is very much identified with IJS-friendly skating, sometimes criticism that should be framed as being related to the system is directed at him.
    2. In addition, some people don't like Patrick Chan as a skater - because they feel he is not musical, because they think he makes too many mistakes, because his programs don't speak to them, or because he simply isn't their cup of tea.
    3. Some people don't like Patrick Chan's public persona, due to various unfortunate comments over the years.

    Not liking Patrick Chan's skating or persona are no less and no more "correct" than liking them. Same goes for any other skater.

  9. #109
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,932
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    And a comment like this is somewhat disappointing, but one that we're not supposed to really engage with.
    double post

  10. #110
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,932
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    And a comment like this is somewhat disappointing, but one that we're not supposed to really engage with.
    really? disappointing like Chan's victories...
    Last edited by lala; 05-03-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #111
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    132
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    But my argument is correct. Patrick and Carolina have far greater skills in 4/5 components than any other skater. They are then rewarded for their superior skills. They are still deducted the same way as everyone else. They are given -1 fort he fall and a -2/-3 on the faulted element. It is completely fair

    I can understand and i agree that ISU should consider bonus points for skaters who have a clean performance. Or that you want the ISU to penalize more for falling. But atm there is no such rule. Dont get angry at Patrick or Carolina because you dont agree with the system.
    This is slightly off the subject. but in the rule it must receive -3. Not -2 or -3. But she did not. The connect triple toe which she fell was clearly under-rotated but she did not received "<" http://youtu.be/jNLvKCQEXdA?t=1m15s
    Not only because of the rules. I have had doubtful in many cases.
    Last edited by torren; 05-03-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  12. #112
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kostner #1 Fan
    Posts
    451
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Your argument is a subjective opinion. It is neither correct nor incorrect.

    My opinion is that Patrick Chan is not superior to all his competitors on 4 of the 5 components, let alone "far better". If you're really a skating coach, you need to better understand the difference between different parts of a performance and their evaluation: skating skills ≠ P&E, and "looking nice" ≠ CH, as you mistakenly seem to believe. Chan is also not superior in all the technical elements. It is this insistence that he is so vastly better than everyone, at everything, all the time, that is a turnoff to many skating fans. I would also argue that a messy performance is not a great display of skating skills, but that is neither here nor there.

    I'll leave Kostner out of this as she does not enjoy the sort of scoring compared to her competitors that Chan does.


    The ISU does not need a bonus for clean performances. It needs to ensure that skaters are marked for what they actually do rather than what they can theoretically do. I don't care how good Chan's/Kostner's/Savchenko & Szolkowy's programs are on paper, I care about how good they are on the ice and in competition. And I happen to like Caro and S/S. As for the rest:

    1. Many fans have issues with the scoring system. As Patrick Chan is very much identified with IJS-friendly skating, sometimes criticism that should be framed as being related to the system is directed at him.
    2. In addition, some people don't like Patrick Chan as a skater - because they feel he is not musical, because they think he makes too many mistakes, because his programs don't speak to them, or because he simply isn't their cup of tea.
    3. Some people don't like Patrick Chan's public persona, due to various unfortunate comments over the years.

    Not liking Patrick Chan's skating or persona are no less and no more "correct" than liking them. Same goes for any other skater.
    You have some good points here. First i would rather you not insult my knowledge as a coach. Yes i understand the differences in the 5 components however many judges do not and i may have worded it wrong, but i was trying to say something from the judges perspective. I understand that many judges mix them all together to be like 1 component instead of 5. I wasn't trying to say that i mix them together, i meant the judges do.

    In the end not liking Patrick because of his persona and comments is fine and i agree he can be a douche. Not liking patrick because he is not particularly musical is also fine. But dont hate on Patrick because the scoring system is somewhat flawed or that the judges aren't very smart. Although most of the time i agree with the judges results, because i believe he does deserve greater skating skills and transitions and choreography even if he falls and most judges believe this too. But if you dont agree, then dont hate on patrick, hate on the judges.

  13. #113

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    3,222
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11128
    When in the hell are your going to understand we are not "hating on" Patrick???? I haven't seen many comments here that radiate "hatred." Some of us don't think his skating skills are the absolute best in existence, we think he is being overscored when he wins with falls, and yes, we get it, that's on the judges . He is very talented and has many good qualities in his skating. We also think he needs to WORK on some of his skills, particularly his jumps. That doesn't mean we don't respect what he brings to the ice. Some of the posters here, including me, are just not completely over the moon about Patrick Chan and continual posts about "haters" are not going to make us suddenly decide he's the best skater that ever took the ice. It seems that you and some of the other Chan fans here just cannot handle him being criticized in any way. Here's some news for you: criticism is not hatred. It's observing where we think a skater could make improvements, be it in their skating skills or in the way they handle interviews.

    Plus it would help if your could understand that for the average person who is not a skater, skating coach, or very serious fan, it's hard for them to understand why a skater who regularly zamboni's the ice with his butt places higher than those who also have great overall skating and land all their jumps. Yes, he has edges to die for, but that's only one component of a performance. And pointing that out, again, is not "hatred."
    Last edited by Yazmeen; 05-03-2013 at 03:49 PM.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  14. #114
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    827
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    You and others may not be 'hating' on him Yazmeen, and I get it if you're not a fan, that's fine but some are just in it for pure hatred. Name calling and spewing out vicious disgusting statement, creating thread after thread all aimed at bitching about how much they don't like Patrick. But again that's not everyone and you are certanly entitled to not like him and not like his skating but it's getting a bit beyond with some of the people, and some of their comments, but then this happens not just with Patrick, he's just the target at the moment. He is not a perfect person nor a perfect skater but I don't think he deserves some of the thing that are said on here. Again he just skates he is not the judge, he does not score himself, as sk8ingcoach said aim your anger in the direction of the judges and the system when it comes to being bothered by his 'unjustified victories'. That is something he can not control.

  15. #115
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,294
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    ...
    And yes his superior skating skills and transitions should allow him room to make a few mistakes...
    Just NO! That goes for Patrick and for anyone else. Very bad precedent set mainly for Patrick under IJS.

    And in any case, Patrick's "transitions" are NOT superior to those of every other skater.

    Boy, weezy, jeezy ... we now have your permission to "get angry at Patrick because of his comments..." Is it possible we can just "get angry" at you for yours? Or maybe we can "get angry" at the judges and go on strike at events where Patrick wins with numerous errors???

    Patrick, are you listening? Please stay on your feet, so these numerous Chan-fest threads on FSU can come to an end. But I guess that would unfortunately mean another target for uber ire or devotion would be singled out.

    BTW, anyways some excellent points are being made by many thoughtful posters not riding a high horse.



    No matter what any of us have to say, Pat may indeed ride his high horse and his SS all the way to Sochi Olympic gold. Let's hope if that's the case, he will ultimately redeem himself in the hearts and minds of all skating fans. A tall order at this point, but it only takes two mesmerizing and clean athletic/ artistic performances for him to do so. He already has the hearts and minds of ISU judges and the Chan gang.

  16. #116
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Or maybe we can "get angry" at the judges and go on strike at events where Patrick wins with numerous errors???
    It has proved that it doesn't work, neither booing nor "petitioning". Can you think something new and more productive? Such as trying to think like how the judges think? Or otherwise submitting suggestions in details to ISU?
    Last edited by Eyre; 05-03-2013 at 09:18 PM.

  17. #117

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    90280
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    You have some good points here. First i would rather you not insult my knowledge as a coach. Yes i understand the differences in the 5 components however many judges do not and i may have worded it wrong, but i was trying to say something from the judges perspective. I understand that many judges mix them all together to be like 1 component instead of 5. I wasn't trying to say that i mix them together, i meant the judges do.

    In the end not liking Patrick because of his persona and comments is fine and i agree he can be a douche. Not liking patrick because he is not particularly musical is also fine. But dont hate on Patrick because the scoring system is somewhat flawed or that the judges aren't very smart. Although most of the time i agree with the judges results, because i believe he does deserve greater skating skills and transitions and choreography even if he falls and most judges believe this too. But if you dont agree, then dont hate on patrick, hate on the judges.
    You are really riding your high horse, coach. We are not idiots, just because we don't coach skaters.

    I don't hate Patrick. Far from it. I actually enjoy watching his flow on the ice. However, when in a competition he is given marks that he does not deserve due to MULTIPPLE mistakes (I am forgiving of one fall in an otherwise well skated program), I do have a problem with it. The judges are not judging what the skater actually did in the competition, and that is the issue here. It has nothing to do with any of us hating or loving Patrick. However, you seem to be in the 'blindly loving' camp. You can continue to do blind worship; just don't put us down for being more objective.

  18. #118
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Does it matter?
    Posts
    1,163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    You and others may not be 'hating' on him Yazmeen, and I get it if you're not a fan, that's fine but some are just in it for pure hatred. Name calling and spewing out vicious disgusting statement, creating thread after thread all aimed at bitching about how much they don't like Patrick. But again that's not everyone and you are certanly entitled to not like him and not like his skating but it's getting a bit beyond with some of the people, and some of their comments, but then this happens not just with Patrick, he's just the target at the moment. He is not a perfect person nor a perfect skater but I don't think he deserves some of the thing that are said on here. Again he just skates he is not the judge, he does not score himself, as sk8ingcoach said aim your anger in the direction of the judges and the system when it comes to being bothered by his 'unjustified victories'. That is something he can not control.
    And think that it's exactly some of those people who complain that Chan's fans won't let them express a different opinion of Patrick. But God forbid someone should dare to defend Patrick's scores because that person would immediately be branded a blind worshipper. And all this in the name of fairness and objectivity. lol

  19. #119
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,320
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I hope that kind of thing forces other skaters, and especially the young skaters (with coaches) to work on basic skating skills.
    In the 90's, coaches were only focused on jumps, jumps, jumps. A skater with better jumps was prefered by coaches.
    I really hope it will change.
    The essence of Figure skating is skating skills, use of the blades, edges, transitions...

  20. #120

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    90280
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    The essence of Figure skating is skating skills, use of the blades, edges, transitions...
    ....and jumps. Otherwise we might as well just watch figures, or may be ice dance.

    It's not like other skaters don't work on the basics. Many Japanese and Russian (and some N.American) skaters have excellent basics, transitions, edges. Patrick is extraordinarily gifted in that area. He is a natural. However, if FS is to be considered a sport, I want to see the athleticism encouraged, and not just watch skaters do edgework across the ice, and fall on jumps.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •