I havent seen that much of Jason Brown. I love musical skaters though so maybe I should watch some of his tapes since it seems he gets high praise from people on this thread for that aspect of his skating. Does he have a shot at the U.S Olympic team.
The moment I submitted my post I realized that I should mentions Patrick's musicality.Patrick's musicality is not as good as Jason Brown and Jeremy Abbott could put on ice. However, Daisuke Takahashi's musicality has been limited by his skating abilities. I believe he is more musical than he has put on the ice. Sometimes, he just has to compromise it in that regards in order to concentrate on his elements which he has to do. In the contrast, Patrick could and has used up all he has well on ice. Denis Ten is no more musical than Chan. I don't care about the past skaters in this aspect.
If you look at his early body of work and again that if you look at his Mannish Boy ex ( saw it again live last friday) you can why Sandra Bezic call him very musical. However as Patrick developed technically he had to sacrifice some of that innate musicality to his elements. Now there is no way that Patrick is close to Buttle or even Abbott. But then both Buttle or Abbott cannot deliver the tougher elements, transitions etc in their skates. Totally agree that Denis Ten is more musical than Chan. If you look at the artist program it looks so much like a generic Lori-Chan program without the higher level of difficulty that Lori gave Chan!
In any case, I don't think the judges are at all caught up in Patrick's persona, etc., just his quads and his SS, even when these assets are not always at their best.
I think the criticism of Patrick as a person is separate from the criticisms of him as a skater.
I think Chan gets the respect he deserves for his superb basic skating skills and the detail in his skating. When he lands his jumps he does get the respect. The only time he does not get respect is when he is given the wins despite multiple mistakes- some major ones- in his performances. If this was a rare occurrence, it won't be a big deal, but it has happened far too often to go unnoticed. On top of that, his lack of humility rubs some people the wrong way.
Unfortunately, the Chan fans missed my point. I can appreciate his skills, I just don't like his skating. Which in most of your estimation means that those of us who do not apparently disrespect Chan and you. No matter how many times I see him live, I have said I appreciate his skating, I don't like his skating.
It boils down to - in your opinion I don't like him therefore I am disrespecting. Don't you think it is rather disrespectful to others to insist that we must see him exactly as you do? I hesitate to say anything about what I think regarding his speed, etc. because I HAVE been told now Congratulations you are a convert and have seen the light. just because I said I appreciated some aspect of his skating. For me life is not that black or white.
As for his public persona and no one should judge his skating by those remarks, there are many talented people in this world in all sports or professions, if they act out whether in the media or other ways, I judge them on those things too. I give them a semi-free ride on behavior if they are young and new in the media. I don't when they have been on the scene for many, many years and think that it is reflective of either poor PR education or something else.
This is a public forum, international forum, skating forum. That means people will like different skaters, people will take apart the programs, competition, compare skaters to others, have strong opinions. in my opinion any skater that is skating on the elite scene - whether it is the world stage or their home country have my respect.
Who gets to decide how much respect Chan deserves, how much admiration, or how many fans? I don't feel that the opinions of his fans are more valid or justified than the opinions of his critics (barring the trollish idiots, who should not be fed anyway). Nor do I believe that he's superior to other skaters in all ways and that this point of view shouldn't be challenged. If people want their favorite to be discussed only in a positive way, they should stick to uber threads.
You should check out The Skating Lesson podcast's recent interview with Jason Brown. He's an amazing talker as well as a wonderful person seemingly filled with joy for figure skating. I hope he doesn't lose too much of his innocence and joy.
I'm starting to wonder what have been credited into Takahashi's actual skating from his off ice public persona and his dazzling upper body movements and his hair and his face?
In addition, I would like to say that Patrick and his skating skills do not overly impress me. For me, he is NOT a better skater in terms of skills and performances as compared to other champions and skaters I have seen since 1970. He is not a better skater than John Curry or Toller Cranston or Robin Cousins or Scott Hamilton or Brian Orser or Brian Boitano or Ilia Kulik or Kurt Browning or Misha Petkovich or Robert Waggonhoffer or Jeff Buttle or Stephane Lambiel or a whole host of names of great male skaters.
While still world class and a world champion, Patrick Chan, his programs and his performances seem forgettable. SorryBoutIt.
Last edited by PairSk8Fan; 05-01-2013 at 08:10 PM.
You must be confusing me with someone else because I definitely didn't make any estimation about the respect Patrick would deserve or would not deserve in my earlier post.I think that many posters who, in your estimation who don't give Patrick the respect you think he deserves, are those who feel that a clean skate or nearly a clean skate should be marked higher than someone who may have the edging but falls.
Yours is exactly the sort of comment that will convince nobody.
In fact, I did not tell fans what threads to hang out in. I told fans who are unwilling to accept opposing viewpoints to stick with fellow fans.
Again, you too are welcome to your views and to your misinterpretations of my views. I don't think Dai Takahashi is a musicality God and he's not my favorite male figure skater either, but I am a Dai fan and I admire him tremendously. In fact, Dai is a superb athlete and a charismatic skater who has continuously soaked up learning experiences and has consistently challenged himself to grow as a person and a skater to the enjoyment and pleasure of non-discriminatory, non-Chan obsessed skating fans around the world.
Dai is also most definitely a gracious sportsman who is a wonderful role model and representative for the sport of figure skating. In all these aspects, the same can not be said of Patrick Chan, no matter how PC's fans and ISU judges might desire to spin it.
Last edited by aftershocks; 05-01-2013 at 09:29 PM.
^^ Spot on!
I'm eager to see what Jeremy's collaboration with Robin Cousins will bring next season. Hopefully, Robin may be able to impart some wisdom to Jeremy also re not over-thinking during performances, and learning how to rise above the pressure.