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  1. #121

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    Volchkova couldn't do a flip at all. She just did a lutz from a flip style entrance. If you're going to downgrade Michelle for taking off on the flat for the lutz, VV goes out for doing a "flip" on a complete outside edge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Volchkova couldn't do a flip at all. She just did a lutz from a flip style entrance. If you're going to downgrade Michelle for taking off on the flat for the lutz, VV goes out for doing a "flip" on a complete outside edge.
    Volchkova had HUGE jumps though, and way stronger than Kwan's. I think her jumps were stronger than Irina's in many ways, despite the hype Irina got as best women jumper of the time.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Tonya's 3A was "textbook" ? You will not find one single text book or any coach that teaches his student to perform a 3A with a very obvious outside-of-the-circle tilt in the air and with a wide, swinging free leg on the landing.
    Her 3axel was not textbook, but it was better than any women besides Ito has ever done still. Mao badly pre rotates hers, Meissner's one ratified one was a joke, Nakano has a bad leg wrap and flawed technique on all jumps. Neledina maybe you could argue against Harding's 3 axel, it was smaller but very nicely done and better controlled. It was the only decent move of her whole repertoire though, LOL! Her in between skating was pre novice level and she lasted only two years on the scene.

    All of Harding's jumps besides the 3axel are textbook.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    Volchkova had HUGE jumps though, and way stronger than Kwan's. I think her jumps were stronger than Irina's in many ways, despite the hype Irina got as best women jumper of the time.
    She also tended to stop dead when she landed them. Yes, she had a big lutz. So does Gracie Gold, and she's not on the list either.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    She also tended to stop dead when she landed them. Yes, she had a big lutz. So does Gracie Gold, and she's not on the list either.
    Well I thought her jumps were all huge and beautiful. Yes you are right on her flip take off edge, but other than that her jumps were incredible. JMO. I always thought her jumps were stronger than Irina's when she landed them, and most everyone considers Irina the best jumper of that particular era. I was so pissed when the judges didnt give her the bronze at both the 2001 and 2003 Worlds, and instead gave them to much weaker jumpers (Hughes and Suguri) who didnt have much artistry either.

  6. #126
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    Volchkova had one of the most beautiful Lutz ever. And a good Salchow as well.
    Slutskaya has big jumps, but her toe jumps are not very good (questionnable Lutz, telegraphed Flip, Toe-axel), and her jumps tends to have no speed going out.
    Her edge jumps are fantastic, and I love the way she could put a big 3Loop out of nowhere, and such a consistent Salchow.
    Imagine Volchokva+Slutskaya together in one person, WOW !!!

    Re : Tonya Harding's 3Axel. I also find that jump is not very beautiful to watch. But I remember the french commentator in Albertville (Anne-Sophie de Kristoffy, french National champion in 1979) saying that Tonya had a wonderful 3Axel, probably even better than Midori Ito, in term of pure technique. I'm confused at that comment.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Volchkova couldn't do a flip at all. She just did a lutz from a flip style entrance. If you're going to downgrade Michelle for taking off on the flat for the lutz, VV goes out for doing a "flip" on a complete outside edge.
    Michelle's take-off was more than on a flat. She had a true flutz. Maybe not as bad as Sasha's or some others, but a flutz nonetheless.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by screech View Post
    Michelle's take-off was more than on a flat. She had a true flutz. Maybe not as bad as Sasha's or some others, but a flutz nonetheless.
    It has been discussed over and over. But watch the video. Michelle doesn't Flutz. She is on the inside edge but on the first part of the blade, and ends at worst on the flat. It's not a good Lutz, but she is never on the inside edge, so, it's not a flutz.

  9. #129
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    ^ Michelle flutzes slightly. The only skaters who have questions flat edge take off on their lutzes are Midori and Irina.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ Michelle flutzes slightly. The only skaters who have questions flat edge take off on their lutzes are Midori and Irina.
    And Julia Sebestyen ?

  11. #131

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    Midori Ito had a horrible leg wrap. Why is no one mentioning it?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by operagirl View Post
    Midori Ito had a horrible leg wrap. Why is no one mentioning it?
    I thought her leg wrap was ugly. Midori can't seem to do anything wrong with figure skating fans though so no one will mention it. I've even read some people on this very board say that her leg wrap was cute or attractive. So um yeah no one will count it as a negative.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    She also tended to stop dead when she landed them. Yes, she had a big lutz. So does Gracie Gold, and she's not on the list either.
    Gracie probably not on the list right now because she's at the start of her career.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I thought her leg wrap was ugly. Midori can't seem to do anything wrong with figure skating fans though so no one will mention it. I've even read some people on this very board say that her leg wrap was cute or attractive. So um yeah no one will count it as a negative.
    The leg wrap wasn't penalized in her day and I remember Katarina Witt did some kind of a skating article in which she said you could either jump with the leg wrap like Midori or with straighter legs like Kristi. It seemed acceptable back then to do it either way. Jump technique was still evolving I think. Some of the 50's and 60's skaters often seemed to have an odd legs-together technique without really even crossing their legs. Midori's style wasn't pretty but it was spectacular and I still say she was the greatest jumper ever, leg wrap and all.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    I was so pissed when the judges didnt give her the bronze at both the 2001 and 2003 Worlds, and instead gave them to much weaker jumpers (Hughes and Suguri) who didnt have much artistry either.
    I always thought Volchkova was overmarked. She had great jumps, but much of the rest of her skating was lacking. Her speed wasn't impressive, some of her spins (especially her layback) had poor positions and didn't rotate quickly, and the in-between content in her skating was otherwise simple. She was elegant and had the basics, I'll give her that.

    But in no world should her 2001 and 2003 medal performances be deserving of a medal. In 2003, Suguri had far better speed and better quality outside of jumps. In 2001, Hughes still skated more or less flawlessly throughout the competition, even with her jump technique issues. Not to mention, her spins, spirals, and choreography were better than Volchkova. And let's not mention Butyrskaya in this championship either - she was certainly better than Volchkova. I never got why judges gave Volchkova better marks than many skaters who were at a similar level, such as Liashenko or Sebestyen.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    If you are talking about 5 triple skaters who regularly landed those jumps with proper edges (or at least near proper edges), I think the list would narrow down to the following (and I just shortened the original list, no particular order of greatness claimed here):

    Midori Ito
    Yu Na Kim
    Tonya Harding
    Irina Slutskaya
    Kristi Yamaguchi
    Michelle Kwan
    Surya Bonaly (and I'm not quite sure here)

    If I missed a couple, please add them.
    Kim rarely attempt the 3Loop...

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ Michelle flutzes slightly. The only skaters who have questions flat edge take off on their lutzes are Midori and Irina.
    Do we call that a flatz?

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    Do we call that a flatz?
    LOL
    Lutz with e : Flutz
    Lutz with ! : Flatz or a Flit...
    Because a Flutz is a Flip, and a in fact, a Lutz on flat is the same jump as a Flip on flat ! Hahahaa

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen View Post
    Kim rarely attempt the 3Loop...
    Every skater in history has her own weakness.

    If Yuna is not one of the best jumpers of all time then tell that to her performance in this year's Worlds.

    If consistency is not a factor, then I don't know what it is.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by riveredge View Post
    Every skater in history has her own weakness.

    If Yuna is not one of the best jumpers of all time then tell that to her performance in this year's Worlds.

    If consistency is not a factor, then I don't know what it is.
    And it's not even necessary to talk about consistency here. YuNa Kim's jumps at those Worlds were all perfect, in every way.

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