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  1. #61

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    Midori Ito
    Yu Na Kim
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    Tonya Harding
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  2. #62

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    Top 20 female jumpers of all time

    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Name the 20 you would have over her. Yes I would say a 3axel is worth that much when only 5 women in history do it, and nobody does it as often as her (even if Ito does hers much better when she does).
    That's fine, I'm sure many agree with you but for me a 3axel is not enough to make up for her lack of a good/correct/consistent salchow, lutz and toe. 3 out of the 6 triples lacking!

    I will not name my top 20, I don't need to justify my post (I did explain my post) but I would put anyone with 5 consistent/correct triples in front of her. That list alone would knock Asada off. I would probably not put anyone with 4 triples ahead of Mao, I give her 3axel enough credit to rank ahead of those.
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  3. #63

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  4. #64

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    I think it remains to be seen how she develops as her career unfolds, but I think Gracie Gold is one of the most talented jumpers in a long time (maybe my opinion is a bit skewed because lipping doesn't bother me nearly as much as flutzing).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Joannie Rochette should be considered in the discussion (save for the triple lutz, her other 4 triples were of very good quality).

    Joannie did have 3 toe loop - 3 salchow sequence later in her career. Surprisingly, despite good speed on takeoff and height, her running edge on the landings were not as long as her competitors.
    Joannie also had a 3toe 3toe combination for a while (watch her 2005 lp). And her lutz was solid. She reworked it early enough in her career that her entry was pretty great.

  6. #66

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    why shouldn't Kostner be on the list? She had all 5 triples this year, at worlds the 3L was in the SP, she singled it in the FS, but she did all 5 tripples regularli for 7 years, more than Rochette (only the last 2 years of her carrier), took them away due to injury and took them back now.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    That's fine, I'm sure many agree with you but for me a 3axel is not enough to make up for her lack of a good/correct/consistent salchow, lutz and toe. 3 out of the 6 triples lacking!

    I will not name my top 20, I don't need to justify my post (I did explain my post) but I would put anyone with 5 consistent/correct triples in front of her. That list alone would knock Asada off. I would probably not put anyone with 4 triples ahead of Mao, I give her 3axel enough credit to rank ahead of those.
    Fair enough but then one would think you would be objecting to most people putting Kim at #1 or #2 (or #3) than Mao being top 10 on some peoples lists, since Kim has only 4 triples, and by your bolded comment wouldnt that put her right out of top 20 on your jump list too?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Joannie's problem is her lack of 3-3 combos (or something like a 3 axel in place) and her inconsistency. People can say Rochette is a better jumper than Asada, well in a sense maybe, but who collects more on points per jumps per competition. It would be Asada and it wouldnt be close.
    Olympics LP

    Rochette: 43.1 from the LP
    Asada: 41.88 from the LP

    I think the quality of Rochette's jumps are quite strong and her technique was pristine. She didn't have the biggest jumps nor the most consistency, but she rarely underrotated and had correct edges.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Fair enough but then one would think you would be objecting to most people putting Kim at #1 or #2 (or #3) than Mao being top 10 on some peoples lists, since Kim has only 4 triples, and by your bolded comment wouldnt that put her right out of top 20 on your jump list too?
    Except I never said a word about Kim. I just pointed out Asada because it really has been something that has always bothered me (people considering her one of the great jumpers) but I've never had a chance to bring it up. Kim has done all 5 triples, though, so she is in that gray area for me. Her 3loop was never consistent but when it was done it was correct and then she took it out completely. I would probably put Kim ahead of Asada based on her clean jumps (sometimes she has edge calls on the flips, yes) and how amazingly huge and fully rotated they are. She has also done 2 different and difficult 3/3 combinations very cleanly and consistently.
    -Brian
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  10. #70
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    Last edited by karlon; 05-02-2013 at 02:14 AM.

  11. #71
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    Most edge calls on Kim's 3F are bogus and cannot be taken seriously. She has the most ideal takeoff on her 3F.

  12. #72
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    Yes, Yuna's weakness point is 3loop.
    07-08 coc 3Lo +GOE 0.8 / 07-08 cor 3Lo +GOE 0.6 / 07-08 GPF 3Lo fall / 08-09 SA 3Lo → 1Lo / 08-09 4cc 3Lo<
    3Lo's rate of success is 40%.

    But If you look at Mao's 3A rate of success, it is 30.9%(17/55) - If you want statistics, I can explain.
    It's lower than kim's 3Lo. At the same standard, 3A is Mao's weakness point?
    Last edited by karlon; 05-02-2013 at 02:57 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    why shouldn't Kostner be on the list? She had all 5 triples this year, at worlds the 3L was in the SP, she singled it in the FS, but she did all 5 tripples regularli for 7 years, more than Rochette (only the last 2 years of her carrier), took them away due to injury and took them back now.
    What do you mean? Rochette was always attempting each of the 5 different triples. She had a horrible flutz in her first full senior season and then came back with a corrected one in 2004, but she's always attempted the five excluding Axel. She's put together many 6-triple programs internationally in her career, too.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by munow View Post
    Most edge calls on Kim's 3F are bogus and cannot be taken seriously. She has the most ideal takeoff on her 3F.
    but judges think there is a problem with her edge. Randomly judges can give her wrong edge at any time.
    We can not say her 3F is the most ideal.

  15. #75

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    I would not say Kim's flip is "ideal" but I would say that she is a victim of her reputation. In other words, the callers are going to look at her flip closely whether they see anything in real time or not because she has a history of getting an edge call. The same way I think some skaters get more closely inspected for URs because of their past, such as Nagasu for example. Someone like Kostner can UR a jump that is obvious in real time but doesn't get a < or << and it is probably because the callers didn't even ask to review it because, for her, UR is not an issue on a normal day. For Nagasu, she lands smooth looking jumps but every one of them seems to be scrutinized no matter what.
    -Brian
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  16. #76
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    A better explanation is the tech callers don't even know what's good or bad. Those calls she got in the 2008-2009 season were equally as a joke as the call in her 2013 Worlds SP.

    And it is ideal whether you like it or not. When you learn to jump a single flip you're told to do exactly what she does on her triple flip. Literally textbook.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I truly have a hard time understanding what makes Mao Asada such a great jumper. Is the 3axel really worth that much? Take that away and what are you left with? A skater with a good 3flip and 3loop and a nice double axel. Her 3salchow is inconsistent at best and her 3lutz has never even been a lutz. The 3toe has never had good technique, either. Honestly, she deserves credit for the 3axel but Mao is not even CLOSE to being one of the top 10 jumpers of all time and I wouldn't even put her in the top 20. That is just being blinded by one jump.
    Asada herself has recognized her weakness of her jumping. She started reworking her jumps after winning a gold medal at Worlds in 2010. I'm not sure that her jumps now are any better than they were then. Indeed, I would not be surprised if she landed fully rotated triple axels in competitions less regularly over the past season or two than she did before she started reworking her jumps. If that is in fact the case, I leave it to others to determine if it because her jumps have deteriorated or because technical panels are being less indulgent.

  18. #78
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    If we go by the height of the jumps,

    Midori
    Harding
    Sebestyn
    Volchkova
    Slutsykaya
    Kim
    Gold
    Chen
    Bonaly
    Sokolova
    Onda

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    So Ito, Kim, and Slutskaya are excluded while Kwan and Nikodinov are included. That is funny. Slutskaya had sketchy technique in some ways perhaps, but in what way did Ito or Kim have flawed technique, especialy compared to flutzing not powerful jumping Kwan and Angela. No Angela did not have great jumps, they were not that big and she flutzed, and often didnt carry much flow out, and was really inconsistent too.
    Well for one, it's my opinion.

    And two, I never knocked any other skaters like you did.

    I did point out that Michelle and Angela had periods of flutzing.

    I think Midori is the greatest ladies jumper of all time, I was talking quality and correct technique. Midori had a pretty severe leg wrap (not a penalty, but not aesthetically pleasing). Yu-Na's technique is excellent, but it's been what, four years since she did a 3Lo?

    Yes, Angela took out the 3S from her program after she dislocated her shoulder on it, and Michelle took out the 3Lo in her final competitive season, but they generally tried all five regularly attempted triples.

    Did you ever see Angela skate live? Her jumps were not as huge as say, Victoria Volchkova's, but they were pretty much textbook. The 3Lz in particular had good distance (when she didn't flutz). Her problems were more mental than to do with technique.
    Last edited by all_empty; 05-02-2013 at 07:00 AM.

  20. #80
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    In my opinion, Kim is not intended to powerful and jumper like athlete. but I think beauty of jump, posture, and effortless is also in criteria..
    I reminds Dick Button's commentary in 2009 worlds. he said - Kim Yuna is one of the few skaters who can answer about what is the jump. jump is not just a little pop with a lot of revolution. It's almost flying. And she does.

    She is not the most powerful jumper. but I think she is the one of the skaters who can jump most beautifully.
    Last edited by karlon; 05-02-2013 at 07:22 AM.

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