View Poll Results: Who wins out of young ladies stars if all go clean in both programs

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  • Gold

    43 33.86%
  • Li

    10 7.87%
  • Sotnikova

    40 31.50%
  • Tuks

    9 7.09%
  • Lipnitskaia

    3 2.36%
  • Osmond

    22 17.32%
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  1. #1
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    Who wins of young ladies guns if all clean

    Of all the really young guns- Osmond, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia, Li, and Gold, who would place the highest of the group if they all had a clean competition.

  2. #2
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    I think Osmond would win out in that case. She is the most artistic of all the girls, and in jumps only Gold at her best is stronger.

  3. #3
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    I think Sotnikova will because she has nice skating skills and presentation. She has the content too with seven triples (although she doesn't have a true lutz and her flip looks ugly too, well most flutzers have awful flips anyway) However because of her unstable jump technique her chances of skating clean is extremely low, and many find her recent programs very unappealing.

  4. #4
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    I dont like Sotnikova's skating. Her programs are often awful and artisticaly blah, and her jumps are fugly and not that strong. Even if she skated clean she wouldnt impress me nearly as much as Osmond or others on a good day.

  5. #5
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    If they all had a clean competition,
    Of course, I think it would be Gracie Gold. The second is Sotnikova.

  6. #6
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    The other thing about Osmonds skating is she has amazing transitions. She does real steps and moves going into every jump and spin. That should both greatly increase her PCS and her GOE to help her TES too, although it seems the judges dont reward her for it as they should.

  7. #7
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    I thought Kaetlyn was getting quite good PCS for a debutant, and it's not as if transitions and spunk were absolutly everything about PCS.
    Gracie beating Kaetlyn in PCS at the WTT (and I'm not sure if it happened elsewhere too) was a bad, bad joke though.

    Anyway, I doubt Kaetlyn would come out ahead. She's missing the 3Lo, sans "just" 6 triples, while all the others are doing 7.
    From this group, I think it would come down to Gracie vs. Adelina. Gracie has the better jumps, though I don't agree at all that Adelinas jumps are fugly - her technique is shaky on the Lutz and Flip, but her jumps are huge and powerful. And when she lands them right, she has gorgeous extention on the landing. Both girls are having the same layout, and while Adelina flutzes, Gracie lips. So the main plus Gracie can make are the +GOE.
    On the other hand I'd say Adelina leads in pretty much everything else - easily better in steps, about average in spins (though I think Adelinas's are a little better too), and Adelina has better skating skills, carriage and body lines (by far). Adelina "skates big", while Gracie doesn't (for now). And the choreos were equally... blah.
    So I think it would be close... I gave the notch to Adelina, simply because at this points Gracie leads with so many votes

    For Liza, I really hope Mishin works on her skating skills with her. Her presentation and interpretation are fine, and her choreography isn't that bad either. But her PCS are always so low, it's really holding her back.
    And I'm suprised Zijun is the only one without any votes. I would have put her before Kaetlyn and Liza, actually.

  8. #8
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    1. Sotnikova
    2. Gold
    3. Tuktamisheva
    4. Osmond
    5. Li
    6. Lipnitskaia
    Last edited by Proustable; 05-02-2013 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #9
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    Give her another year or 2 and I think Zijun Li will dominate all of them!

    But for now, considering the programs of the 2012-2013 it would be

    1. Adelina
    2. Gold
    3. Tuk

    but they would all be very close

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by munow View Post
    I think Sotnikova will because she has nice skating skills and presentation..

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And I'm suprised Zijun is the only one without any votes. I would have put her before Kaetlyn and Liza, actually.
    Why? We are talking about skating at their best. I like her, but she doesn't have Kaetlyn's power, transitions, and presentation, nor does she have Liza's textbook jumps. Her strength right now is her consistency but if all go clean she no longer has that advantage.

    I think Gold would come out on top simply because she has the most impressive jumps as of now and her speed is impressive - basically all the things that make judges go nuts and they don't seem to give a damn about choreography or presentation if you've got jumps like Gracie's. Sotnikova's jumps while big are not technically clean or pleasant to look at.
    Last edited by shine; 05-01-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by siouxdonym View Post
    What's funny??

    Sotnikova might have unstable technique on her jumps but she has beautiful flow across the ice, good speed, clean edges, gorgeous lines, lovely posture, and (whether you like her programs or not) she delivers her choreography with expression and energy. She has cleaner and more mature presentation than any of the other ladies on the list...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine
    Why? We are talking about skating at their best. I like her, but she doesn't have Kaetlyn's power, transitions, and presentation, nor does she have Liza's textbook jumps. Her strength right now is her consistency but if all go clean she no longer has that advantage.
    I just think Li is a better mixture, if you want to put it like that. She has 7 triples and a 3F-3T, plus amazing spins. That's why I think she'd beat Kaetlyn in TES. And on the other side, I think she'd beat Liza in PCS - and in that case, TES is not just jumps either, and their BV is really close. I'm not even sure Liza would win the TES by that much.

    Besides that, I know people like to praise Kaetlyns transitions - but for me, there was a huge difference between her SP and LP. Her SP was completly kickass, but the LP wasn't as impressive to me. So I think Kaetlyn should easily win the PCS in the SP, but the LP is a different game.

  14. #14
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    Sadly, who wins depends on where the competition is held.

  15. #15
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    All this talk about Osmond doing only 7 triples and not doing a triple loop is silly. Yu Na Kim only does 6 triples and doesnt do a triple loop, and does that mean she would lose to Sotnikova, Li, Gold, if they skated clean and she skated clean too, LOL!

  16. #16
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    I think Sotnikova would win if they were all clean, or maybe Osmond but Sotnikova skates maybe slightly more maturely right now. Gold is most likely to go clean, IMO.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    I just think Li is a better mixture, if you want to put it like that. She has 7 triples and a 3F-3T, plus amazing spins. That's why I think she'd beat Kaetlyn in TES. And on the other side, I think she'd beat Liza in PCS - and in that case, TES is not just jumps either, and their BV is really close. I'm not even sure Liza would win the TES by that much.

    Besides that, I know people like to praise Kaetlyns transitions - but for me, there was a huge difference between her SP and LP. Her SP was completly kickass, but the LP wasn't as impressive to me. So I think Kaetlyn should easily win the PCS in the SP, but the LP is a different game.
    Zijun's spins besides the lay back are all just okay quality - decent enough to tick all the level boxes but not particularly fast or with great extension. Even though she attempts all 7 triples she has a pretty unfixable flutz. Her jumps may get the BV but I don't think they can score as much GOE as the other girls can potentially score. Don't get me wrong, I've like her skating since she was a junior and consistency has always been one of her biggest strengths. But until she really improves on all aspects of her skating (power, speed, projection, extension, interpretation) she'll have to rely mainly on her consistency and others to make mistakes to place well.
    You don't think Osmond's LP has good transitions?
    Last edited by shine; 05-01-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  18. #18
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    Sokolova is the ultimate definition of an overrated skater. The judges would not place her 1st if everyone skated cleanly. Europeans shows her scoring cap is about 130 in the LP even clean (what she would have gotten with her triple flip) and even that probably only a Euro friendly event like Europeans. Gold, Osmond, Tuktams, can all go above 130 if they are clean.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine
    Zijun's spins besides the lay back are all just okay quality - decent enough to tick all the level boxes but not particularly fast or with great extension. Even though she attempts all 7 triples she has a pretty unfixable flutz. Her jumps may get the BV but I don't think they can score as much GOE as the other girls can potentially score. Don't get me wrong, I've like her skating since she was a junior and consistency has always been one of her biggest strengths. But until she really improves on all aspects of her skating (power, speed, projection, extension, interpretation) she'll have to rely mainly on her consistency and others to make mistakes to place well.

    Osmond's LP packs in some really good transitions and I think she inteprets the music quite well, whether the program is to your taste or not.
    Zijun flutzes, but so does Kaetlyn. If the flutz is a little less or more severe doesn't really do much to the scores right now (though I agree Kaetlyn is more likely to fix it in the seasons to come).
    GOE is... well, not always what they're supposed to be. Zijuns jumps at worlds garnered +1's and +2's, and Kaetlyn isn't exactly getting a lot of +3's - it's another thing if you agree with it, but the judges tend to give out +1's just the moment a jump is landed, if it had the quality or not. It's similar to the Gracie vs. Adelina thing - if people think Adelinas jumps are pleasant to look at or not, she's getting up to +2's on them quite regulary if she lands them well.

    And I'm not disliking Kaetlyns LP, it's a nice program and still the best of the LPs this young girls had this season, but it's not that far ahead. Her SP is more complex, more intricate and I thought she regulary selled it better than her LP (not counting the mistakes, I mean).

    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated
    Yu Na Kim only does 6 triples and doesnt do a triple loop, and does that mean she would lose to Sotnikova, Li, Gold, if they skated clean and she skated clean too, LOL!
    Yeah, because any of those young girls, including Osmond, had Yunas absolutly amazing overall skating to make up for the missing triple... but it was clear someone would make that comment

  20. #20
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    You are missing the point. 6 triples vs 7 is not some big or any disadvantage under COP. Even leaving a type of triple out means nothing. Under 6.0 it would be huge, but this isnt 6.0 anymore. Many 6 triple programs without a triple (unless it is the lutz) have a higher base value than many 7 triple programs. Kim does not need to "make up" the points lost by an extra triple on others, even though she could. She would easily gain more points on jumps alone than all these ladies even clean, except maybe Gold. She isnt disadvantaged by it anyway. I am not saying Osmond is as good as Kim in jumping or overall skating yet, but having 6 triples and missing a triple doesnt mean you lack difficulty under COP, especialy when you can do a 3-3 which Osmond like these others can.

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