View Poll Results: If Mao had been able to compete at the 2006 Olympics, where would she have placed?

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  • 1st (Gold)

    32 50.79%
  • 2nd (Silver)

    6 9.52%
  • 3rd (Bronze)

    5 7.94%
  • 4th

    5 7.94%
  • 5th

    7 11.11%
  • 6th

    3 4.76%
  • 7th

    0 0%
  • Between 8th & 10th

    1 1.59%
  • Outside the top 10

    4 6.35%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Didn't Sasha had a 3/3 sequence ? Something as 3T half loop 3Sal ?
    Yes but a sequence like that scores far less. Base value for the seq is only 7.5 whereas a 3-3 combo, even a 3T3T combo is base value of 8.9.

    So since Irina had a planned 3Lz+3Lo planned in short and a 3S+3Lo in the fp. While Shizuka has a planned 3S+3T in fp. And Mao had 3A. I think sasha would easily get beat by her competitors when she only had a 3T+3S+seq

  2. #22

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    Here is how both skated at the junior worlds that year. No way Mao would have won the olympics with the preformance she put out at Junior worlds, and there's no reason to think she'd have been able to pull out a better performance at the hypothetical Olympics either.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Here is how both skated at the junior worlds that year. No way Mao would have won the olympics with the preformance she put out at Junior worlds, and there's no reason to think she'd have been able to pull out a better performance at the hypothetical Olympics either.
    ?? She was performing way better all season prior to Junior worlds. And she did change her layout for that worlds, which I agree she would probably not have if she were allowed to compete at the Olympics that year.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    ?? She was performing way better all season prior to Junior worlds. And she did change her layout for that worlds, which I agree she would probably not have if she were allowed to compete at the Olympics that year.
    Given that junior worlds was the next big international she did that year and timing wise it was 2-3 weeks after the olympic competition I don't understand why people think she would have skated differently at the Olympics to how she skated at junior worlds. I just don't buy that at a comptition like the Olympics which has even more pressure than just worlds let alone just junior worlds people think she would have skaterd clean and won the entire thing. Who in the history of ever has rocked up at an Olympics as their first senior championships and won it? There's just no way it would have happened.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Given that junior worlds was the next big international she did that year and timing wise it was 2-3 weeks after the olympic competition I don't understand why people think she would have skated differently at the Olympics to how she skated at junior worlds. I just don't buy that at a comptition like the Olympics which has even more pressure than just worlds let alone just junior worlds people think she would have skaterd clean and won the entire thing. Who in the history of ever has rocked up at an Olympics as their first senior championships and won it? There's just no way it would have happened.
    Well, the thing is I don't think Mao felt that much pressure about junior Worlds that year or much motivation to compete there after her unexpected great run on the senior circuit that season. I think it is burnout that often happens to competitors after an important event in their careers, which the 2005 Grand Prix Final was to Mao at that point. I'm not saying that she would definitely win if she were allowed to go to the Olympics but I think if she were allowed to go, she would feel much more motivated to peform well. She may crumble to greater pressure but then there is also the possibility that she could do well.

  6. #26

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    In terms of Kim, both Elene and Meissner were placed in the top group after the short, Kim had a history of beating those skaters already. We also don't know would Yu-na have skated in the GP if she was eligible or the Olympics.... Would her programs have been a bit more mature. Her short program (The same one) won Worlds Short the next year.

    Its really hard to know, I think Kim COULD have medaled....And I do think Kim was a bit known there was talk that it would be unfair to make an exception for Mao if Kim couldn't participate...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    In terms of Kim, both Elene and Meissner were placed in the top group after the short, Kim had a history of beating those skaters already.
    Yeah but lets face it, neither of those skaters were in any contention whatsoever for a medal (even if by some huge miracle Meissner had duplicated her lightning from a bottle Worlds LP, and still gotten credit for the rotations of her toe axel triple-triples under totally different circumstances, I see it coming in at 120 max there and still keeping her off the podium overall, even in the crappy event it turned out to be). I dont think anyone doubts Kim would have been in the final flight, but winning a medal is a whole other thing entirely.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    In terms of Kim, both Elene and Meissner were placed in the top group after the short, Kim had a history of beating those skaters already. We also don't know would Yu-na have skated in the GP if she was eligible or the Olympics.... Would her programs have been a bit more mature. Her short program (The same one) won Worlds Short the next year.

    Its really hard to know, I think Kim COULD have medaled....And I do think Kim was a bit known there was talk that it would be unfair to make an exception for Mao if Kim couldn't participate...
    She was a much improved skater overall by 2007 Worlds and she also headed into that competition as the Grand Prix Final champion.

  9. #29
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    How can anyone no. She had never been in a competition that big. Nobody knows how she would handle the pressure and it is almost stupid to speculate.

  10. #30

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    New article on Kim Yu-Na

  11. #31

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Kim would have made too many mistakes, and no one liked her then. She only won 2006 Jr Worlds because Mao had a bad attitiude and wasted her prep time practicing the quadruple loop. Having already won 2005 Junior Worlds and the Sr Grand Prix Frinal, Mao decided a 4L would be her new focus for the rest of the year. It was not a smart plan, and it showed in her dismal performance at Jr Worlds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Plus Kim had no experience in competing in senior level events, unlike Mao who had competed in the senior grand prix that season and won the final. In fact, during that season, Mao had beaten all of the main contenders for the Olympic title (including the 3 who won medals). As the juniors entering seniors for the first time over the last few years have discovered, the transition to seniors is a daunting and difficult one to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    And also Kim could not get PCS same as Mao.
    her programs were so juniorish, choreography and costumes were poorish.

    Mao already had a famous coach, and the famous choreographer.
    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    ?? She was performing way better all season prior to Junior worlds. And she did change her layout for that worlds, which I agree she would probably not have if she were allowed to compete at the Olympics that year.
    Yu-Na was not juniorish by any measure in 2006 JWC when she won the gold. Itís not just me who saw it that way.

    I remember reading a Japanese sports journalistís report at the scene which said, as Kim stepped on the ice, the atmosphere (the air) in the rink changed, that there was a performerís presence in her skating which the Japanese oppositions lacked, and that even her jumps and spins took on the essence of her programs.

    I also remember Nancy Kerrigan commentating on the event during a delayed broadcast that Kim showed maturity beyond her age as her skating reflected the ebb and flow of the program music.

    Gosh, I donít take pleasure in posting about these old things. Please spare me and yourselves. Kim was a fundamentally better jumper AND performer in that competition (2006 JWC), same as today. Nothing has changed really, substantially, except that the rotation and edge calls have been implemented since then. Different technical layouts for Asada in that event? Same for Kim, as the ISU rules at the time didnít allow 3-3s in ladiesí SP in JWC. And who has better 3-3 of them all?

    I donít see any point in you guysí pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean. All Asada had at the time were marginal (pre and/or under rotated) 3a and some then-light quality in her stroking with some junior-looking programs. Am I wrong? She didnít have true lutz, salchow, or even an ina bauer in her field moves, which is still to be seen in her skating, in competition or shows. I wouldnít say her skating/jumps has deteriorated since then, but rather has remained the same. Am I wrong?

  13. #33
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    How funny this poll is. You never know who will win at the Olympics.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Yu-Na was not juniorish by any measure in 2006 JWC when she won the gold. It’s not just me who saw it that way.


    I don’t see any point in you guys’ pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean. All Asada had at the time were marginal (pre and/or under rotated) 3a and some then-light quality in her stroking with some junior-looking programs. Am I wrong? She didn’t have true lutz, salchow, or even an ina bauer in her field moves, which is still to be seen in her skating, in competition or shows. I wouldn’t say her skating/jumps has deteriorated since then, but rather has remained the same. Am I wrong?
    yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Yu-Na was not juniorish by any measure in 2006 JWC when she won the gold. It’s not just me who saw it that way.


    I don’t see any point in you guys’ pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean. All Asada had at the time were marginal (pre and/or under rotated) 3a and some then-light quality in her stroking with some junior-looking programs. Am I wrong? She didn’t have true lutz, salchow, or even an ina bauer in her field moves, which is still to be seen in her skating, in competition or shows. I wouldn’t say her skating/jumps has deteriorated since then, but rather has remained the same. Am I wrong?
    yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy03 View Post
    yes, you are wrong, Mao actually included 2 lutzes at that time in her programs, she also had the salcow, and as a matter of fact she even practiced a quad salcow, she had several 3-3 and a gourges 3A, as for other field moves she had plenty of them, but one that i must be mention is her gourges layback!
    Asada WASN’T EVEN TRYING taking off on her lutz on the correct edge at the time. I didn’t blame her, since the edge calls weren’t implemented back then, so it didn't matter anyway, sort of. Salchows? She didn’t have one then, and she still doesn’t have a correct position and takeoff on her salchows still now. I would call that a sal-loop, since it looks like she has invented a new jump.

    As for laybacks, Kim has an excellent one, fast, centered, with her back facing deep downwards. You don’t see many ladies going that far back, unlike somebody who tilt the back facing sideway. Kim’s is a fundamentally sound and true layback. I understand some nitpicking on her foot position, but she has vastly improved on that over the recent years.

    I see you guys want to underrate Kim as a spinner. The way I see it, she is an EXCELLENT spinner, with ample ability in handling difficult positions with decent speed and centering, and very clean, simple and athletic entering moves. And she very well incorporates the COP-demanding spins into her programs, reflecting the themes of each program. Cases in point: her trademark inverted camel into a donut in The Lark Ascending, all of her spins in Miss Saigon which effectively brought out the fine nuances in ambience of changing phases in that program. And all her spins in the impeccable Les Misrables, to name a few. The way she handles and somehow incorporates these difficult COP requirements is just wonderful. It was observed in the same vein by the Japanese skating reporter who was present at the 2006 JWC. He said back then, Kim’s spins were not just to meet COP level requirements, but also took discreet and profound forms within the programs reflecting the themes of the music. I would say he had keen eyes even back then.

    I admire your blind love for Asada, but let’s be objective.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Asada WASNíT EVEN TRYING taking off on her lutz on the correct edge at the time. I didnít blame her, since the edge calls werenít implemented back then, so it didn't matter anyway, sort of. Salchows? She didnít have one then, and she still doesnít have a correct position and takeoff on her salchows still now. I would call that a sal-loop, since it looks like she has invented a new jump.

    As for laybacks, Kim has an excellent one, fast, centered, with her back facing deep downwards. You donít see many ladies going that far back, unlike somebody who tilt the back facing sideway. Kimís is a fundamentally sound and true layback. I understand some nitpicking on her foot position, but she has vastly improved on that over the recent years.

    I see you guys want to underrate Kim as a spinner. The way I see it, she is an EXCELLENT spinner, with ample ability in handling difficult positions with decent speed and centering, and very clean, simple and athletic entering moves. And she very well incorporates the COP-demanding spins into her programs, reflecting the themes of each program. Cases in point: her trademark inverted camel into a donut in The Lark Ascending, all of her spins in Miss Saigon which effectively brought out the fine nuances in ambience of changing phases in that program. And all her spins in the impeccable Les Misrables, to name a few. The way she handles and somehow incorporates these difficult COP requirements is just wonderful. It was observed in the same vein by the Japanese skating reporter who was present at the 2006 JWC. He said back then, Kimís spins were not just to meet COP level requirements, but also took discreet and profound forms within the programs reflecting the themes of the music. I would say he had keen eyes even back then.

    I admire your blind love for Asada, but letís be objective.
    LOL, THIS for me just confirmed that you have not watched a single performance of Mao from junior years nor have you seen the protocols, because if you had done that, you would have seen that she had all kind of jumps in her arsenal and GOT THEM ALL RATIFIED, the protocols don't lie, every performance is filmed and can be replayed.

    As for you funny comment about Mao's salcow and loop being new invented jumps, well these jumps have been there for ages, and Mao's loop and sal are some of the best you will find, you really need to try harder because it's these kind of comment that expose your blindness and denial of reality.

    now as to your comments to Kim's layback being flexible and so on.... it's just rubbish, and I don't want to waste my energy in explaining everything wrong with her spins, Kim herself as often admitted to having a very inflexible back, and it has only gotten worse with time.
    why do you think she long ago stopped doing the biellman spin and never does Y-spin, it's because she isn't flexible, her inflexibility was apparent not only in her spins but even in her spirals!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    I donít see any point in you guysí pushing this poll, since I think all of Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Kostner, and even Kim (if she had been there) would have been great in technique and presentation, had they skated all clean.
    but they didnt. So what is your point. From what I see this isnt one of those if everyone had skated cleanly fantasy polls. It is based on what actually happened, and flat out would Asada have won. I dont think Mao would have won had Slutskaya or Arakawa knocked it out of the park with 3-3s and all, but based on the standard of skating at the Olympics as it was, Mao would have probably won with most of her performances that season, or atleast won silver. Why wouldnt many assume she would replicate her performances from most of the season, when she proved she could handle pressure.

  19. #39
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    How about Amy03 naming two or three great qualities in Yuna's skating for a change and lowtherlore doing the same thing for Mao's skating?

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    How about Amy03 naming two or three great qualities in Yuna's skating for a change and lowtherlore doing the same thing for Mao's skating?
    I suspect they'd rather have a root canal. How about just start with just 1.....baby steps

    Could have should have would have... oh why bother compete anymore. If we go by this theory, then no one should be allowed to criticize Patrick's win, at least he competed and won and his skating skills is truly out of this world 'in theory'.

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