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  1. #81
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    It is mean to mock Sato for winning a weak Worlds though. The 2006 Worlds which Cohen lost was even weaker. 1994 Sato faced and beat Bonaly, Szewcenko, Chouinaurd, Markova, and Kiellmann. 2006 Cohen faced Suguri, Meissner, and a nowhere near prime level Rochette. I take 1994 easily, but Sato took her chance and won, and Cohen couldnt.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Anyone who has an opinion on Kwan vs Cohen needs to see them in person. You can't judge correctly based on TV. I remember when Sasha came on the scene I thought that she would be a serious rival to Michelle. I didn't see her in person until 2003. My sister (who knows nothing about skating) & I were at COI. Sasha skated fairly early, but right after a couple of skaters with excellent skating skills. My sister leaned over & whispered "who is she...she's not very good, is she?"

    That's because her edges were almost non-existent & she was slower than anyone else. Of course she did improve in that dept but even at Turino she was clearly the slowest of the podium-hopefuls. It is easy to get wowed by her flexibility but that's not skating. It is silly to ask who is the better skater - you can't seriously put Cohen ahead of any of her nearest competitors, much less Michelle. Better to ask which skater to you prefer to watch - that's subjective so it's just a matter of taste. For a lot of people, Sasha was the preferred attraction.

    I do give spins to Sasha but not spirals. Other than her split position, her spirals were nothing to write home about. They were wobbly & the edge quality was poor. And I take issue with some of her medals where IMO the judges were swayed by her aesthetic quality. 2003 Skate America is a glaring example. Jenny Kirk had 2 of her best programs (Chicago & Die Fledermaus) & performed flawlessly besides having skating skills that were much better than Sasha's.
    Just curious if Sasha was that weak how did she even achieve as much as she did. I am not doubting your perspective seeing her live, which I never have so I cant speak to that, but the way you make her sound, it is amazing she was 2nd at Worlds or Olympics with chances to win so many times.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Just curious if Sasha was that weak how did she even achieve as much as she did. I am not doubting your perspective seeing her live, which I never have so I cant speak to that, but the way you make her sound, it is amazing she was 2nd at Worlds or Olympics with chances to win so many times.
    When I saw Sasha skate at 02 COI (live), it was the first time that I really noticed her edges..or their lack thereof..There was a section where she was stroking and it was quite evident. I do think in time she improved in that area.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    When I saw Sasha skate at 02 COI (live), it was the first time that I really noticed her edges..or their lack thereof..There was a section where she was stroking and it was quite evident. I do think in time she improved in that area.
    OK. I guess that is why she started placing top 2 in big events vs only top 4 or lower before that?

  5. #85
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    I think it was due to her having a striking style, and really improving in her deficiencies in terms of edges and speed. She probably looked like an ideal skater to the judges. I think it was telling that she went from consistently losing to Fumie Suguri when they both went out of the gate in the 2001-2002 season, and then Sasha just progressed. Fumie Suguri was definitely committed to her choreography and had some excellent musical performances, but did not improve upon her posture, positions, stretch, and overall look. To me, that's what really killed Fumie's chances of being a top gold medal contender.

    Sasha also capitalized on the health decline of Kwan, the inconsistency of Arakawa, and Irina's declining then rising then declining health.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    This doesn't mean who is the better competitor - we all know the answer to that question.

    Is Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen a stronger skater overall - taking into account both technical and artistic standpoints?

    What are your thoughts?
    This is from the OP. So we have to drop the discussion about Sasha being unable to win the big competitions. She won USN only when Kwan did not compete.

    If we leave out the competitive aspect, and just focused on skating, Kwan still comes out ahead in my mind.

    Basic skating skills - not even close; Kwan wins
    Jumps- technique, consistency; Kwan
    Choreography - Kwan (particularly Lori's programs)
    Footwork- close but edge to Kwan because of her better basics
    Spirals- Cohen had her free leg higher but Kwan had better edge control, so give it to Kwan
    Spins- This is where Cohen has a clear win; she had interesting and faster spins

    IMO this is not even close. Kwan is so much better as a skater (and then you add the competitiveness factor!)

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    [QUOTE=Vash01;3914530]Spins- This is where Cohen has a clear win; she had interesting and faster spinsQUOTE]

    I even think this is debatable. Her spin positions and speed in spins were cool but lots of times her spins travelled. Michelle's spins were really well centered.

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    [QUOTE=AJ Skatefan;3914653]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Spins- This is where Cohen has a clear win; she had interesting and faster spinsQUOTE]

    I even think this is debatable. Her spin positions and speed in spins were cool but lots of times her spins travelled. Michelle's spins were really well centered.
    Agreed. When one looks at the skater from the waist down, Sasha is not the best. Look at the feet, look at the edges, look at the control.

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    [QUOTE=AJ Skatefan;3914653]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I even think this is debatable. Her spin positions and speed in spins were cool but lots of times her spins travelled. Michelle's spins were really well centered.
    True. Back in the day, I always paid attention to Sasha from the waist down. She wasn't that great. Look at the feet, look at edges, look for control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    OK. I guess that is why she started placing top 2 in big events vs only top 4 or lower before that?
    Huh? She was 4th at 02 Worlds and 4th at 03 Worlds..I have no idea what you are talking about . I was commenting on her edges.

  11. #91
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    I guess Sasha was simply a 3rd-rate skater who got as far as she did with pretty spirals and spins.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I guess Sasha was simply a 3rd-rate skater who got as far as she did with pretty spirals and spins.
    Nobody said that. The original question was comparing Sasha and Michelle. Sasha was a good skater. Michelle was better, IMO.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Skatefan View Post
    Nobody said that.
    No edges, no speed, no glide, wobbly, a gymnast on ice...even a person who wasn't into figure skating could tell she wasn't that good. Oh, and even her spins and spirals weren't all that great, as they traveled, weren't well centered, and had a poor change of edge.

    Oh, but what wonderful flexibility she had!

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I guess Sasha was simply a 3rd-rate skater who got as far as she did with pretty spirals and spins.
    If you say so.

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    Oooo....good one.

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    Now i am a strong hater of both these skaters. But when both were at their prime, kwan was the greater skater. This is easy just by counting the number of world championships

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Now i am a strong hater of both these skaters. But when both were at their prime, kwan was the greater skater. This is easy just by counting the number of world championships
    a strong hater?!

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    No edges, no speed, no glide, wobbly, a gymnast on ice...even a person who wasn't into figure skating could tell she wasn't that good. Oh, and even her spins and spirals weren't all that great, as they traveled, weren't well centered, and had a poor change of edge.

    Oh, but what wonderful flexibility she had!
    I havent seen her live but if the people in this thread who have are accurately potraying what her skating looks like live, I would have to say she was probably lucky to achieve what she did even.

    However if you just go by her achievements and nothing else she is still nowhere near the skater Kwan, Slutskaya, Kim, Asada are either overall, and even below Hughes, Butyrskaya, Arakawa.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    a strong hater?!
    Seriously, people should strongly hate those who abuse children, elderly people, and animals, for example, not figure skaters.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    Now i am a strong hater of both these skaters. But when both were at their prime, kwan was the greater skater. This is easy just by counting the number of world championships
    Do your students take you seriously?

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