Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 109
  1. #61
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,978
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    don't forget Klimova/Ponomarenko vs Bestemianova/Bukin. K/P were so far superior it wasn't even funny. I would even mention Wilson & McCall vs B/B as I thought W/M were also superior.
    True, I didnt mention that one though as I didnt want to mention examples where the general reason was mainly horrible judging (K&P vs B&B). The examples I mentioned it was more based on the scoring system, who was the stronger competitor, who put it together at the right times, who was able to succeed highly via meeting the rulebook or collecting points and beat people who they werent neccessarily better skaters then, and all the variables of momentum, reputation, chance, that go into results.

    Other examples would be Brian Joubert, Evan Lysacek, and to some degree Elvis Stojko. People concede they deserve their medals and achievements (other than maybe Evan to some degree) but they arent considered phenomenal skaters on par with their medal records, and are considered inferior to many who have less medals and victories than they do.

  2. #62

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1012
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    You didnt ask me but:

    Ito vs Witt
    Many other skaters vs Witt (arguably)
    Lipinski vs Kwan (I believe Tara have a winning record of 5-4, if we only include individual events)
    Slutskaya vs Kwan from 2000 onwards (although I guess there are some who would argue Slutskaya was overall atleast as good a skater from 2000 onwards, but many would say otherwise)
    Schuba vs Lynn
    Zayak vs Sumners (well in the opinions of many anyway)
    Fratianne and Poetzsch vs Watanabe, Marie Allen, Biellmann, especialy Biellmann
    Baiul vs Chen
    Kerrigan vs Harding
    Hughes vs Cohen (I believe Hughes has the winning record)
    Trenary vs Harding
    OK. Maybe you're right about most of them. Many of them were before I started watching skating. I do think that consistency and competitive nerves are part of being a better skater though.

  3. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,195
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Thanks, JJ. You mentioned a few I was thinking of and some I'd forgotten. Here are a few more.

    Bonaly was not better than Sato despite beating her more often than not.

    Ditto for

    Bonaly and Chouinard

    Goebel and Savoie

    Hughes and Nikodinov

    Barna and Wylie

    Maurizio Margaglio and take your pick

  4. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    612
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    B&B had more speed and power in their skating than either of these teams in 1988.
    They skated much further apart, with much simpler handholds, and much simpler content and choreography as others have noted. No way in hell did they ever deserve to beat either team. I would've had B&B 2nd in 1985 and then 3rd in 86, 87, and 88. Their garish expression was a very clear attempt to distract from their lack of skating skills. I keep losing my patience whenever I watch them as all they seem to do is slash through their music in an attempt at cheap drama.

  5. #65
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,978
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I couldnt believe all the 6.0s they got for their FD at the 87 Worlds when I thought that was their worst program of all. I would have had them 4th or 5th in the FD that year.

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Thankfukky watching skating
    Posts
    13,144
    vCash
    317
    Rep Power
    17692
    Anyone who has an opinion on Kwan vs Cohen needs to see them in person. You can't judge correctly based on TV. I remember when Sasha came on the scene I thought that she would be a serious rival to Michelle. I didn't see her in person until 2003. My sister (who knows nothing about skating) & I were at COI. Sasha skated fairly early, but right after a couple of skaters with excellent skating skills. My sister leaned over & whispered "who is she...she's not very good, is she?"

    That's because her edges were almost non-existent & she was slower than anyone else. Of course she did improve in that dept but even at Turino she was clearly the slowest of the podium-hopefuls. It is easy to get wowed by her flexibility but that's not skating. It is silly to ask who is the better skater - you can't seriously put Cohen ahead of any of her nearest competitors, much less Michelle. Better to ask which skater to you prefer to watch - that's subjective so it's just a matter of taste. For a lot of people, Sasha was the preferred attraction.

    I do give spins to Sasha but not spirals. Other than her split position, her spirals were nothing to write home about. They were wobbly & the edge quality was poor. And I take issue with some of her medals where IMO the judges were swayed by her aesthetic quality. 2003 Skate America is a glaring example. Jenny Kirk had 2 of her best programs (Chicago & Die Fledermaus) & performed flawlessly besides having skating skills that were much better than Sasha's.

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    90
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Kwan was a great skater but Sasha was probably as great as anyone in the last 20 years except maybe Ando. Had she put it together she would have won dozens of titles. Pretty much every event from 2002-2010 was hers to lose.

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,309
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    45242
    Quote Originally Posted by Andofanatic View Post
    Kwan was a great skater but Sasha was probably as great as anyone in the last 20 years except maybe Ando. Had she put it together she would have won dozens of titles. Pretty much every event from 2002-2010 was hers to lose.
    ...and she lost majority of the big ones. BTW 2010 US nationals was not hers to lose. She had not competed in 3 years and no longer had the technical skills.

    I liked Sasha as a performer; she was lovely to watch, but to say that her skating skills were even comparable with Michelle's is an exaggeration. To say that she was as great as anyone in the last 20 years is not only a gross exaggeration, but it is an insult to many deserving skaters (Michelle, Irina, Kristi, Yuka Sato, Chen Lu- to name some) in that era.

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    90
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Yuka Sato a better skater than Cohen, LOL! Get real. Sato won a fluke World title when nobody showed up. The field was so devoid of most of the top skaters it should have been cancelled to begin with. The only thing she does better than Sasha is basic skating. Why was Sasha a gold medal threat in so many events and Sato not even a medal threat in any event but the non Worlds of the 94 Worlds. Chen was weak in all of spins, footwork, spirals, and didnt have high jumps or much artistry until the end of her career.

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    On a magic planet with Meryl and Charlie
    Posts
    6,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16878
    Yuka Sato had superior skating skills, thus was a better SKATER than Cohen.

  11. #71
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    90
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Yuka Sato had superior skating skills, thus was a better SKATER than Cohen.
    So best skater is only about skating skills and nothing else. Are Sato, Arakawa, and Fumie Suguri the three best ever then over people like Kwan, Kim, Henie, Ito, and Witt. Get real.

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    On a magic planet with Meryl and Charlie
    Posts
    6,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16878
    All those mentioned were better skaters with better skating skills.

  13. #73
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Andofanatic's posts are getting more and more interesting

  14. #74
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere, beyond the sea...
    Posts
    1,799
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Andofanatic's posts are getting more and more interesting
    Agreed but I'd replace the word "interesting" with the phrase "cray-cray".

  15. #75
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    90
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The only crazy thing is saying Sato is a better skater (not just basic skating which of course Sato is better but all things considered) than Cohen. Cohen atleast had a big chance to win a World or Olympic event 4 or 5 times. Sato only had one chance in a non Worlds where 70% of the top women and all the dominant favorites didnt even show up. Other than basic skating what does Sato do better.

  16. #76
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    4,284
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Anyone who has an opinion on Kwan vs Cohen needs to see them in person. You can't judge correctly based on TV. I remember when Sasha came on the scene I thought that she would be a serious rival to Michelle. I didn't see her in person until 2003. My sister (who knows nothing about skating) & I were at COI. Sasha skated fairly early, but right after a couple of skaters with excellent skating skills. My sister leaned over & whispered "who is she...she's not very good, is she?"

    That's because her edges were almost non-existent & she was slower than anyone else. Of course she did improve in that dept but even at Turino she was clearly the slowest of the podium-hopefuls. It is easy to get wowed by her flexibility but that's not skating. It is silly to ask who is the better skater - you can't seriously put Cohen ahead of any of her nearest competitors, much less Michelle. Better to ask which skater to you prefer to watch - that's subjective so it's just a matter of taste. For a lot of people, Sasha was the preferred attraction.

    I do give spins to Sasha but not spirals. Other than her split position, her spirals were nothing to write home about. They were wobbly & the edge quality was poor. And I take issue with some of her medals where IMO the judges were swayed by her aesthetic quality. 2003 Skate America is a glaring example. Jenny Kirk had 2 of her best programs (Chicago & Die Fledermaus) & performed flawlessly besides having skating skills that were much better than Sasha's.
    I wasn't aware that Jenny Kirk (love her webcasts!!) had skating skills that were so much better than Cohen's. I thought she was also pretty slow and her stroking was kind of short and choppy?

    BTW, if your sister knows nothing about skating, how was she able to tell that Cohen was not very good?

  17. #77

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,795
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1805
    Quote Originally Posted by Andofanatic View Post
    Yuka Sato a better skater than Cohen, LOL! Get real. Sato won a fluke World title when nobody showed up. The field was so devoid of most of the top skaters it should have been cancelled to begin with. The only thing she does better than Sasha is basic skating. Why was Sasha a gold medal threat in so many events and Sato not even a medal threat in any event but the non Worlds of the 94 Worlds. Chen was weak in all of spins, footwork, spirals, and didnt have high jumps or much artistry until the end of her career.
    Ok not to hate on Sasha, but couldn't you say the same thing about 2006 worlds that Sasha could not even win? Every top skater was NOT there. And not only does she lose, she loses to Kimmie Meisner of all people, along with Fumie, and places 4th in the long program. If Sasha could not win what would probably been known as a "fluke" world title, how could she win one against the big guns?

    I was shocked that she could not win that competition. Literally shocked.

    During her career I always saw her as a gold medal threat, but after that competition, I came to the conclusion that she just could not win and probably really was never a true gold medal threat. She was totally a podium threat though and after 2003 was on the podium for every competition so there is something to be said for that accomplishment.

  18. #78

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1012
    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Ok not to hate on Sasha, but couldn't you say the same thing about 2006 worlds that Sasha could not even win? Every top skater was NOT there. And not only does she lose, she loses to Kimmie Meisner of all people, along with Fumie, and places 4th in the long program. If Sasha could not win what would probably been known as a "fluke" world title, how could she win one against the big guns?

    I was shocked that she could not win that competition. Literally shocked.

    During her career I always saw her as a gold medal threat, but after that competition, I came to the conclusion that she just could not win and probably really was never a true gold medal threat. She was totally a podium threat though and after 2003 was on the podium for every competition so there is something to be said for that accomplishment.
    ^This. My logic may be flawed but since Cohen didn't manage to win one world title and Kwan won five, it seems to me that Kwan was a better skater overall. And I agree with those who've said that Kwan's basic skating skills were far superior. Jumps were better too. Not even comparable, IMO. Cohen has many good qualities and I enjoy watching her as a professional, but in competition days, Kwan had it all over Cohen.

  19. #79
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    218
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Jumps- Kwan
    Spins- Cohen
    Footwork- Tied
    Spirals- Cohen by a bit (Kwan wins this vs virtually everyone else but not Cohen)
    Lines, extensions, beautiful positions, and polish- Cohen by a bit (Kwan wins this vs virtually everyone else but not Cohen)
    Elegance and grace-Tied
    Musicality- Tied or Kwan by a bit
    Sophistication and Maturity- Tied
    Skating skills- Kwan
    Choreography- Tied

    So overall as skaters, excluding competitive abilities, they are pretty equal. Kwan is the much better competitor which is why she wins much more. Kind of like how Karyn Kadavy and Katarina Witt were virtual equal in skating abilities, but since Witt was the much better competitor she achieved much more.

  20. #80
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    99
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Cohen was able to hit pretty positions. I don't see her being so artistic other than that. Not to mention her technical abilities, both jump technique and basic skating.

    Kwan wins this by a landslide, although I'm not a fan of her either.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •