View Poll Results: Which Olympic falls by these 3 skaters were the most costly?

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  • Kurt Browning - 1992 Olympics (SP)

    24 21.43%
  • Michelle Kwan - 2002 Olympics (FS)

    70 62.50%
  • Sasha Cohen - 2006 Olympics (FS)

    18 16.07%
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  1. #1

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    Which Olympic falls by these 3 skaters were the most costly?

    Michelle Kwan, Kurt Browning, and Sasha Cohen are some of the greatest skaters never to have won an Olympic title. In all 3 cases, they suffered falls during their Olympic programs. But whose fall(s) was the most costly in terms of their Olympic title chances?

    Kurt Browning

    1992 Olympics - in his short program, he fell on the 3A part of his 3A+3T combination. With other mistakes, including a two footed landing on his 3Z, this left Browning in just 4th place after the short program.

    Michelle Kwan

    2002 Olympics - fall on the 3F in her FS. With other mistakes (including doubling out on the second part of her 3T+3T combination, and a two footed landing on the first part), she fell from 1st after the short program, to 3rd overall.

    Sasha Cohen

    2006 Olympics - in first place after the short program, she fell on the first part of her 3Z+2T+2R combination and on her 3F in her free skate. The first 45 seconds of her LP were basically a disaster. She fought back to land 5 triples (3R, 3F+2T combination, 3T+3S sequence, 2A, 3S), but it wasn't enough.
    Last edited by Maofan7; 04-23-2013 at 07:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sasha's. I still remember that day.

  3. #3
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    how funny that one of these falls made me cry while the other made me clap

  4. #4
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    Kwans since she would have won without the fall. Even if she was 2nd to Hughes in the LP that would be enough to win.

    Cohen would have had to eliminate BOTH of her major mistakes, and then hope Shizuka still did only 5 triples to win. Just one wouldnt be good enough, and the way the question is phrased you are talking of only one fall.

    Browning had a ton of mistakes in Albertville and his LP was not going to be strong even had he been clean in the SP. He was too injured, too off his game at that moment.

    So Kwan by far.

  5. #5
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    I agree with judgejudy.
    Kwan for me, as she is the only one who should have won without her fall.

  6. #6

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    I wish Cohen had added back those two other jumps somewhere. She didn't just fall on the 3lz it made her leave out two jumps. If you add back all the points Cohen lost it becomes extremely close. 191-190 Arakawa - Cohen. There is no guarantee if Cohen did well Arakawa was doing triple/ triples. She really didn't have triple/triples in competition the whole season at all. No one did anywhere at all among those top 3 in the SP. So then it becomes more about the flip mistake for Cohen as well. If Cohen was clean absolutely she wins.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Kwans since she would have won without the fall. Even if she was 2nd to Hughes in the LP that would be enough to win.

    Cohen would have had to eliminate BOTH of her major mistakes, and then hope Shizuka still did only 5 triples to win. Just one wouldnt be good enough, and the way the question is phrased you are talking of only one fall.

    Browning had a ton of mistakes in Albertville and his LP was not going to be strong even had he been clean in the SP. He was too injured, too off his game at that moment.

    So Kwan by far.
    ITA. I picked Kwan for the very same reasons.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I wish Cohen had added back those two other jumps somewhere. She didn't just fall on the 3lz it made her leave out two jumps. If you add back all the points Cohen lost it becomes extremely close. 191-190 Arakawa - Cohen. There is no guarantee if Cohen did well Arakawa was doing triple/ triples. She really didn't have triple/triples in competition the whole season at all. No one did anywhere at all among those top 3 in the SP. So then it becomes more about the flip mistake for Cohen as well. If Cohen was clean absolutely she wins.
    The two jumps you are referring to are a double loop and double toe loop. Those two jumps are only worth 2.8 points, not even close to the 8 points Cohen lost by, so I dont know where on earth you are getting that 191-190 figure from. Shizuka wouldnt have had to do a triple-triple, she could have just done a 6th or 7th triple, which you can do without a triple-triple (Sasha had no triple-triple but tried 7 triples). As it was she landed 5 clean triples, the same number as Cohen and still blew Cohen away. Cohen was even beaten by Shizuka on the combined spins-footwork-spirals points for that LP so I dont see how she would have won if they did comparable jump content, Shizukas jumps are way better and get way more GOE than Sashas weak ones, so unless Sasha was getting 70 points or something on PCS. At the very least I have no doubt Shizuka had the capacity to do more than she did and chose not to at that point. I know Slutskaya was left, but Slutskaya was skating super badly in practices by that point so it was probably assumed she wouldnt skate any better than she did. We will never know for sure though, but why on earth assume Sasha who never skated a clean LP in her life skating cleanly with 7 triples, and not assume Shizuka who has skated clean competitions with 7 triples and 1 or 2 triple-triples (and was doing that in practice all week) atleast doing 6 or 7 triples. It makes no sense, atleast not from my perspective, but to each their own.

  9. #9

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    Browning by a mile. Kwan and Cohen at least won medals despite their mistakes. Insane that Browning has no Olympic medal of any color.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  10. #10

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    Michelle. The 3F was her only real mistake and she would have likely won the Olympics had she not fallen out of that jump. Yes, she didnt do a 3-3, but neither did Irina, and if Michelle was 2nd in the LP she'd be 1st overall. The lack of 3-3 and 3F also caused her to take out most of her step sequence to complete that final 3T. I remember Joe Inman specifically mentioning that lack of footwork in his decision to place her 3rd. Had she landed that 3F, she likely would not have tried that alternative ending with the lack of footwork and extra 3T.

    Sasha made 2 big mistakes in her LP, if she had only made 1, she would still be behind Arakawa. Kurt - it just wasn't his Olympics to win.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Had she landed that 3F, she likely would not have tried that alternative ending with the lack of footwork and extra 3T.
    I think she still would have, as Slutskaya was yet to skate and she two-footed the landing of the 3t in combination with the 2t. Simply leaving it at five clean-enough triples would be cutting it rather close--Slutskaya managed as many on an off night--and with her seven-triple FS insufficient to win a majority of the judges in Nagano, I don't think Kwan would have played it quite that conservatively at the very next Olympics.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The two jumps you are referring to are a double loop and double toe loop. Those two jumps are only worth 2.8 points, not even close to the 8 points Cohen lost by, so I dont know where on earth you are getting that 191-190 figure from. Shizuka wouldnt have had to do a triple-triple, she could have just done a 6th or 7th triple, which you can do without a triple-triple (Sasha had no triple-triple but tried 7 triples). As it was she landed 5 clean triples, the same number as Cohen and still blew Cohen away. Cohen was even beaten by Shizuka on the combined spins-footwork-spirals points for that LP so I dont see how she would have won if they did comparable jump content, Shizukas jumps are way better and get way more GOE than Sashas weak ones, so unless Sasha was getting 70 points or something on PCS. At the very least I have no doubt Shizuka had the capacity to do more than she did and chose not to at that point. I know Slutskaya was left, but Slutskaya was skating super badly in practices by that point so it was probably assumed she wouldnt skate any better than she did. We will never know for sure though, but why on earth assume Sasha who never skated a clean LP in her life skating cleanly with 7 triples, and not assume Shizuka who has skated clean competitions with 7 triples and 1 or 2 triple-triples (and was doing that in practice all week) atleast doing 6 or 7 triples. It makes no sense, atleast not from my perspective, but to each their own.
    Cohens 8.8 base value three jump combo went down to be only worth 3 points. She got all -3 goe on the lutz so you need to add those points back and then the value of the two doubles. She got 183 points so if you add 5 and then maybe go up to the 9.00 she got for it she got at us nationals she gave up a lot more than 2.8 points and that could already bring her total up to around 190. Then there is the flip mistake which wasn't a fall but If it was better gets her past 190. Arakawa wasn't really doing 3/3 that whole season. One at japanese nationals. Practice 3/3 were not ever becoming competition 3/3's. At no point that season was arakawa near 7 triples. Cohens fall was so costly because she left out two jumps and got all the minus goe. Cohen still might not have won but it is really close and it cold have gone either way. Especially it forced arakawa to do a 3/3 the first time that season in competition.
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 04-25-2013 at 03:54 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Browning by a mile. Kwan and Cohen at least won medals despite their mistakes. Insane that Browning has no Olympic medal of any color.

  14. #14
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    Kurt Browning shouldnt even be a poll option. What exactly would his 3 triple LP have done for him even if he won the short program. Nothing. He also didnt give up in the LP, he still had a clear opportunity for silver atleast, he just couldnt skate better due to his physical or mental state at the time.

  15. #15
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    Can someone verify Kurt's successful jumps? I remember he fell on his triple axel in the short but I thought he was 6th not 4th? I'm relying on memory but didn't he also land two triple lutzes in the LP - a first for him? He had a serious back injury that took him out of the skating season which is why Michael Slipchuk is a Cdn champion. I remember the media hype, but Kurt just didn't have the training time to get ready for Olympics, and that's not a mental problem.

  16. #16

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    I would add to the three-

    B&S fall on the final lift at the 1998 Olympics kept them from winning the pairs OGM. It was a costly fall because had they won the OGM in 1998, they may not have stuck around in 2002 and the whole pairs controversy in SLC would not have taken place. May be we would still have the 6.0 system (less likely, actually, because Speedy would have found a way to bring COP into FS)

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