View Poll Results: Which of these people can beat a clean Kim next year with a clean skate

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  • Sotnikova

    11 4.58%
  • Tuktamysheva

    5 2.08%
  • Gold

    13 5.42%
  • Wagner

    6 2.50%
  • Kostner

    93 38.75%
  • Asada

    77 32.08%
  • Murakami

    5 2.08%
  • Czisny

    9 3.75%
  • Osmond

    3 1.25%
  • Suzuki

    9 3.75%
  • Ando (if she returns)

    11 4.58%
  • nobody can beat a clean Kim

    110 45.83%
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  1. #81

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    I should have been a little more specific in my post when I said no one can touch Yu Na's 3lutz/3toe. I put it in present tense but I was focusing on the 2010 Olympic competition. In THAT competition, no one was even coming close...not even the slightest bit. Now there are a few who can compete with her on that combination, I agree. Also, yes, there are other aspects to GOE but who cares, Yu Na does the combination better than anyone whether or not she does the jump with her hand above her head, her eyes closed, or upside down.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  2. #82
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    No one will be a clean Yuna. Carolina although can receive great GOE and PCS scores, her base value for TES will never be high enough to beat Yuna. Mao has the potential to receive high TES base value, however she will not receive the same GOE as Yuna and Kostner to pull up her TES.

  3. #83
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    Carolina can receive great PCS and GOE, but base value is low.
    Mao has high base value, but she can't receive high GOE like kim.

    Anyway, I can't sure kim can clean program again in next olympics.. honestly, It's not so often she had perfect two clean programs?
    Mao has taken back her consistency. If kim makes mistakes a little more than mao.. Mao would win..
    Last edited by torren; 04-28-2013 at 05:58 AM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by torren View Post
    Mao has taken back her consistency.
    Really?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Really?
    She is in much better competitive shape but still is very prone to underrotations. but she is certainly much better than she was in 2010-2011 or 2011-2012.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilng View Post
    I recall many people saying this about Michelle at the '98 Olympics and we all know how that turned out!
    And at the '99 Worlds... Nobody is invincible, but it is true that IJS can make someone like Yuna or Patrick Chan much harder to beat.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    And at the '99 Worlds... Nobody is invincible, but it is true that IJS can make someone like Yuna or Patrick Chan much harder to beat.
    Well, Yuna never won when she had more than 4 falls.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    And at the '99 Worlds... Nobody is invincible, but it is true that IJS can make someone like Yuna or Patrick Chan much harder to beat.

    Patrick Chan can win fall four times, And huge PCS often saved him.
    kim is not.

    1. When she has more mistakes than Mao,she couldn't beat Mao.
    But, Mao always almost made more mistakes than Yuna.
    2. when Yuna win major titles, she had almost perfect programs.
    2009 world - the only mistake was last 3s in FS/2010 olympics - two clean programs/2013 worlds - two clean programs.
    3. Yuna has never won by Pcs. her rank has never gone up by PCS.
    4. If yuna is under 6.0 system. In any system. She could win her olympics, worlds. Do you have objections to this claim?

    the way to mao beat Yuna is just Mao increase her consistency, and has cleaner program than Yuna.
    It only depends on her ability. Don't make an excuse.
    Last edited by karlon; 04-28-2013 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #89
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    Michelle Kwan. She should win all hypothetical competitions.

    Kostner possibly has the best chance if she upgrades her difficulty but I feel the possibility of her going clean at the Olympics (the stage where she had horrible meltdowns in the past) is less than Mao going fairly clean with her layout.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    And at the '99 Worlds...
    well Kwan did not skate cleanly there, and bombed the SP. Although the way Maria skated there (the competition of her life along with Russian Nationals 99) she might have suffered another shock loss ala Nagano even if she had.

    Kim can not be compared to Chan. Even if she might be a bit of a judges favorite she would never get away with making the number of mistakes he makes and still win. In fact the interesting thing as I mentioned is all her major titles were slam dunk blowouts that cant even be questioned, while the times it was close (2008 Worlds, 2011 Worlds) she always ended up the loser; which kind of goes against the general feeling that she is the judges favorite.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    In fact the interesting thing as I mentioned is all her major titles were slam dunk blowouts that cant even be questioned, while the times it was close (2008 Worlds, 2011 Worlds) she always ended up the loser; which kind of goes against the general feeling that she is the judges favorite.
    First, she has not been pushed out of the WC podium, It was interesting that she has only two titles.
    I felt this way.
    When She has superior skating which others can even not touch, it was clear-outed her winning, judges used to give generous score. But when She was similar with other skaters, or makes mistakes a little more than others, when the result is not sure;Yuna and others were so close, judges tend to be a bit harsh to her than other top skaters. I aslo wonder why..
    Last edited by karlon; 04-28-2013 at 08:07 PM.

  12. #92
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    If this is all hypothetical anyway then I believe a clean Ando with 2 triple/triple combos 2axel/3toe/2loop and a landed 4sal attempt that got partial credit all in the last half of the program would stand a chance beating Kim technically but then it would come down to PCS

  13. #93
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    .

  14. #94
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    In 2011 World Championships, both have several mistakes,
    In sp, Yuna's PCS was 1 point higher than Ando, In fs, Yuna's PCS was 2 point higher than ando.

    when both make a mistake, the gap is not big.
    However, if yuna and ando, both have two clean program, I think that the PCS gap between yuna and ando would big...
    Last edited by karlon; 04-28-2013 at 08:37 PM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lainerb View Post
    If this is all hypothetical anyway then I believe a clean Ando with 2 triple/triple combos 2axel/3toe/2loop and a landed 4sal attempt that got partial credit all in the last half of the program would stand a chance beating Kim technically but then it would come down to PCS
    What month are we in now? Almost May? Yup, it’s about time they crawl out after peeping through. Cowards.

    One thing I agree though, Ando would be more competitive than Asada. She has way better jumps and flows in her skating, even though she’s not widely praised as a performer. She has far better of a chance to beat Kim, IMO. And she was all out with Arakawa for a psychological attack on Asada just after Vancouver, like the way Suzuki did a while later, with even more strikingly similar outfits shared between them.

    Poor Asada..
    Last edited by lowtherlore; 04-28-2013 at 08:41 PM.

  16. #96
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    Miki can beat YuNa, of course.
    her PCS was only 3 behind from Yuna at 2011 worlds. Miki is in the same class with Carolina kostner. If both have clean, clean kim will get huge PCS. If both have mistakes, PCS gap will be 2-3, Miki can beat her as well as Mao, Carolina.

    I admit clean kim is difficult to beat. but IF kim has same levels mistakes with others, Mao, Carolina, Ando can beat her both TES and PCS.
    Last edited by torren; 04-29-2013 at 03:02 AM.

  17. #97
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    Ando has some of the worst basic skating skills in top ladies I've seen and won't be receiving the high PCS she was dubiously at that year's 4CCs and Worlds, more than six points higher than she did at the GPF in the same season. It was a total joke.

  18. #98
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    While anyone on the list other than Asada and Kim is a trolling option, I still LOL the most at all the Czisny votes. Even moreso if a few of those happen to be serious and not just excited fanboys.

  19. #99
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    In my opinion about 2008 worlds, while I watching kim's program, I felt only "she looks so tired"(I know she had injuried and she had end up FS hard. )
    The score was fair to both Mao and Yuna. And it was rightful that Mao's PCS was higher than kim.
    Last edited by torren; 04-29-2013 at 03:52 AM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    While anyone on the list other than Asada and Kim is a trolling option, I still LOL the most at all the Czisny votes. Even moreso if a few of those happen to be serious and not just excited fanboys.
    I think Czisny almost got my vote. Hahahaha. I thought about it, but then I remembered she can't usually land a double axel.

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