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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Nothing.

    Title count and medal color doesn't determine a team's or skater's place in history. Michelle Kwan was never able to win the OGM, yet no one questions that she's one of the greatest ladies skaters ever. Kurt Browning never managed to win an Olympic medal of any color, yet he's considered one of the greatest men of all-time. Usova and Zhulin never won the OGM and only have one world title, but are considred to be one of the greatest ice dance teams of all-time. On the flipside, just to give one example, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, and Oksana Baiul all have OGM's, but it's hard to find anyone who thinks any of these three belong on a list of all-time great ladies.
    The lack of the OGM are why Browning and Kwan are considered only one of the best ever, and not the best ever by most people. So the lack of OGM is a big deal even for them. Hughes and Baiul are some of the weakest examples of OGM, it doesnt mean the OGM isnt a big boost to other peoples careers (or even theirs for that matter, they just still arent good enough to be all time greats even with it as they are too weak otherwise and in overall abilities is all).

  2. #22
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    Nothing

    Only theycan,hinder it by being jerks about it, if they lose.
    In other words handle the loss badly,
    Be unsportmanlike about it.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Very few Olympic champions are dethroned on their second try.
    Quite a few are. Actually in the modern era very few have won back to back OGMs (Grishchuk-Platov and Katarina Witt did win; also G&G although they were not defending their OGM).

    The 'dethroned on their second try' at the OGM:

    M&D (92 champs, silver in 94)

    V&V (84 champs, silver in 88)

    Boitano (88 champ, no medal in 94 which was his second attempt at the OGM, although his 3rd Olympics)

    Torville-Dean (84 champs, bronze in 94 which was also their second attempt at the OGM; in their case though the time gap was much wider than in Boitano's case)

  4. #24
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    I reiterate again nothing.
    Someone brought up the fans being sore winners\sore losers.

    The same goes for D/W if they act like sore winner. It will hurt them just as much if V/M act like sore losers or vice versa.
    If V/M act like sore winners and D/W act like sore losers.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    ...

    He's never really been considered that amazing in north America but 2010 was definitely "he's so horrible!"
    When he first came on the scene, Canadian pairs skater+commentator Barb Underhill called him the most naturally talented male skater since Kurt Browning, and she seemed genuinely excited about his prospects. I definitely think Plushy's programs are lacking in transitions, but I don't see how anyone could think he is horrible. It is not just his jumps and his consistency--his blades are solid. He has great basic technique that allows him to move across the ice with seemingly little effort.

    Sorry for the thread drift.

    Back on topic, V&M have received effusive praise from former ice dancers who are widely considered some of the sport's greats (Zhulin, Platov, Krylova, to name a few). Their admiration for V&M is based on specific qualities in their skating, and I cannot see the result of any competition changing that. JMO.
    Last edited by Bournekraatzfan; 04-23-2013 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Had forgotten to include her name

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Quite a few are. Actually in the modern era very few have won back to back OGMs (Grishchuk-Platov and Katarina Witt did win; also G&G although they were not defending their OGM).

    The 'dethroned on their second try' at the OGM:

    M&D (92 champs, silver in 94)

    V&V (84 champs, silver in 88)

    Boitano (88 champ, no medal in 94 which was his second attempt at the OGM, although his 3rd Olympics)

    Torville-Dean (84 champs, bronze in 94 which was also their second attempt at the OGM; in their case though the time gap was much wider than in Boitano's case)
    Most dont even try for a reason. It is very hard to stay on top in a sport like figure skating. V&M as great as they are now are finding that out as D&W are surpassing them.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabybackhand View Post
    Most dont even try for a reason. It is very hard to stay on top in a sport like figure skating. V&M as great as they are now are finding that out as D&W are surpassing them.
    I do not think Davis and White are surpassing Virtue and Moir. Okay, they did not win against Davis/ White this season, but even a Russian journalist said in a recent interview that Virtue/ Moir did not lost their positions according to judges. But a lot of people thought that in 2011 as well and who won Worlds in 2012? They are considered as the best by many critics, coaches and current as well as past skaters, for some even by a mile. There might not have been an outcry in the media, but a lot of people in the figure skating world where confused about the FD results (Zhulin or Robins, for example).

    No one, really no one, could have done this Carmen. The skills needed are extradionary, add Virtue's struggle throughout her career and that they are at the top since 2006. Nothing will change their legacy and impact they left on the skating world. They will always be the most versatile couple of our time who not only challenged themselves but everyone around them; they flirt with the rules every season. I cannot think of any other team who is doing this that successfully.

    It is very dangerous to count a team like Virtue and Moir out, it happened in the past and those teams always came back stronger beating everyone else and Virtue and Moir might just do that!

  8. #28
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    And I forgot to mention--I don't think it will matter a lot either way. D&W are great, V&M are great, and they are the first completely dominant North American dance teams (hopefully not the last) and a great sports rivalry to boot, which is always memorable. The real shame is no matter what happens none of them will get the TV/media attention they deserve because even USFS sucks at promoting ice dance.

  9. #29
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    Losing a Reputation for Virtue

    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Now if Virtue and Moir are overtaken in the 2014 Olympics by their closest 2010 Olympic rivals, Davis and White, the story is notably different. It's like a rematch being played, and both teams are considered--at least at this moment--to still be in their primes. What will it mean if Davis and White win? Will they sort of be the ultimate winners? Is this 2014 prize the biggest in a sense?
    Loss of Virtue is irretrievable; one false step involves her in endless ruin; her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful; and she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex.


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    What happened with T-D reputation, when they won only third place in 1994?
    They will be OGM forever, like other OGM. There are no former Olympics champions. They still be youngest OM in ice dance and first from NA and Canada. Of couse they couldnt repeat G-P (but they already didnt repeat it, because they are only 2-times WCH).
    And if D-W will win OG they become Olympic champions too. First USA OGM in ice dance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    They will be remembered as OGMs (and the first to win the Olympics on their first try since the event was added in 1976), World Champions, Canadian champions, and legendary ice dancers. Their reputation will not be hurt a bit if they don't win another gold.

    Great points. If V&M win the OGM again, it will certainly add to their legacy, but if they don't, it won't take away anything from their accomplishments, their skating or what they achieved throughout their career.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Loss of Virtue is irretrievable; one false step involves her in endless ruin; her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful; and she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex.

    Can someone who can rep please rep Vagabond? A lot?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    And I forgot to mention--I don't think it will matter a lot either way. D&W are great, V&M are great, and they are the first completely dominant North American dance teams (hopefully not the last) and a great sports rivalry to boot, which is always memorable. The real shame is no matter what happens none of them will get the TV/media attention they deserve because even USFS sucks at promoting ice dance.
    i agree that's so saddening. i thought that with v/m and d/w at the top of icedance, both being north american teams, finally icedance would get more coverage and hoopla in the sports world! but noooooo! probably not having a dominant russian team at the top has something to do with it as well--no russian rival to crush hehehe

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Lipinski and Baiul have worse reputations because they got their OGM's and fled the scene. At least V/M have stuck around.
    I don't think anybody, and definitely not me, was saying they should be have run to retirement or that they should not risk losing. I like the answers everyone has provided. It is clear that they would not become less beloved or cease to have been Olympic champions. I think perhaps Davis and White have the most on the on the line, but V&M have plenty too.

  14. #34
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    Why, though? If V-M lose, they'll have their OGM, probably another OM and their, what, six World medals including 2 golds? That's quite a resume. I think they're safe. Even more if we consider their skills, which is what people will remember them for the most, in my opinion.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    i agree that's so saddening. i thought that with v/m and d/w at the top of icedance, both being north american teams, finally icedance would get more coverage and hoopla in the sports world! but noooooo! probably not having a dominant russian team at the top has something to do with it as well--no russian rival to crush hehehe
    So true. It is probably an apt thing to say. If you look at the world champion American and the reigning Olympic champion battle in 2010 Olympics in mens they loved the angle of US vs Russia. Russia with all the lenin statues and everything being evil empire. So maybe if Virtue and Moir were a Russian team it might be a little different! Dance is popular. If one thing Brennan says right it is that dance is popular in the US. No doubt about that. So why can't such a successful American dance team in figure skating get any traction at all?!? Maybe because so much US coverage for years and years was that all the winners were undeserving and the whole thing was a joke!

  16. #36
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    I have to respectfully disagree that all the past winners were undeserving. It was more like the American audiences somehow were through the anti-Russian commentary or by natural inclination hardwired to root mainly for Americans. I've seen skaters from other countries say as much. Even the commentary at times has tended to be biased against the Russians and certain European teams who weren't audience favorites. Of course there were exceptions such as Witt, Yagudin and Baiul when she first won but those are exceptions to the rule.

    As far as being recognized in the media, I thought that up in Canada, V&M would have more opportunities if they wanted them but have chosen to concentrate on their skating. As for D&W; winning medals, even gold medals do not automatically result in mainstream media attention. gerbils, example of Kurt Browning and Michelle Kwan not having won the "big one" but still being popular and being recognized as one of the best in history could be used here as well.

  17. #37

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    To answer the question - absolutely nothing. The people who love them will love them, the people who hate them will hate them, etc.

    For me, reputation has very little to do with medal count. Two of my absolute all time favorites - the Duchesnays and A/P - only won 1 world gold each. Yet I can still remember all their programs, see them clearly in my mind, and remember the excitement and emotion I felt when I watched them skate. For me it's programs rather than medals that makes dancers' reputations.

    I was despairing of V/M until this year. With Carmen they have really ascended to that next level and are now FINALLY living up to their potential. This is HANDS DOWN the absolute BEST interpretation of Carmen I have ever seen and will definitely rank as one of my all-time favorite FDs. I am so glad they finally decided to get a real choreographer. Everything in this program belongs - it's an organic whole - it has a very definite POV - all the elements not only fit the program but add to the mood - this should get a 10 for interpretation. My only regret is that they didnt come to WTT - I was so looking forward to seeing this live.

    This is the best thing they have ever done and Im so glad they are sticking with the choreographer for next year. And they've specifically said we shouldnt expect Mahler 2.0. They set the bar very high with Carmen, but I am expecting something equally good next year. Whatever medal they win, their reputation is secure.

  18. #38
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    Great points, Tak!! I agree with you 100% re: the Duchesnays. One of my all time fave dance teams as well. It all boils down to what you put out there. I would like to think both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White (as well as everyone else for that matter) will be serving up A game realness next season. They know what's at stake.

  19. #39
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    V&M's reputation will not be hurt.
    But V&M themselves' heart and fans' may be somewhat hurt.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Loss of Virtue is irretrievable; one false step involves her in endless ruin; her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful; and she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex.

    "You must spread some reputation around. . . " Props to Mary Bennet for being such a nitwit!
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

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