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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lao1234 View Post
    I did - and as you said, they BOTH had great posture...
    You mentioned K &N Kovatikova Novotny;I did not see S&N Shishkova Naumov

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't think they were underrated. If at all anything, they were gifted the 1992 Olympic bronze medal. They had great lifts but that's about it. Unfortunately for them, the 6.0 system did not give a lot of extra points (placement) for lifts. Throws, sbs jumps, unison, posture & line, edge quality and speed were valued more, as they should have been). As pros they were entertaining but in terms of skating skills they were not cream of the crop. They had a pretty good career- world silver medallists (2x or 3x?)), Olympic bronze medallists (twice), 1-time world champions. I don't see that as underrated.
    Before the 1992 Games they were expected to be fighting for the gold with Miskutienok & Dmitriev, and considered locks for atleast silver. Kovarikova & Novotny werent even considered one of the bronze contenders pre Games, those were Becke & Petrov, Shishkova & Naumov, Kuchiki & Sand, and maybe Ubanski & Marvel and the Germans. B&E were 2nd at the 1990 Worlds ahead of M&D and behind the now absent G&G, and 2nd at the 1991 Worlds after winning the SP. K&N were 8th and 6th at the last 2 Worlds and had not even medalled at Europeans yet. The judges took that all into consideration when determining the result, not just their performances there.

  3. #23
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    You mentioned K &N Kovatikova Novotny;I did not see S&N Shishkova Naumov
    Right - I was agreeing that I had not mentioned S&N. What I was trying to add on was that both Shishkova AND Naumov had great posture. Sorry if confusing...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    But the rough quality that I think you're talking about was very exciting, especially in galas.
    That was what I always liked best about B&E; I thought they were very entertaining and I enjoyed them in that way more than a lot of other pairs. They brought something different to the table and I appreciated that; I like variety in skating and don't enjoy one balletic performance after another.

    But that's different from thinking they were undermarked.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lao1234 View Post
    Right - I was agreeing that I had not mentioned S&N. What I was trying to add on was that both Shishkova AND Naumov had great posture. Sorry if confusing...
    No problem. I misinterpreted the "I did". I was using my cell phone at the time, so it was not as easy as using a regular monitor.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabybackhand View Post
    Before the 1992 Games they were expected to be fighting for the gold with Miskutienok & Dmitriev, and considered locks for atleast silver. Kovarikova & Novotny werent even considered one of the bronze contenders pre Games, those were Becke & Petrov, Shishkova & Naumov, Kuchiki & Sand, and maybe Ubanski & Marvel and the Germans. B&E were 2nd at the 1990 Worlds ahead of M&D and behind the now absent G&G, and 2nd at the 1991 Worlds after winning the SP. K&N were 8th and 6th at the last 2 Worlds and had not even medalled at Europeans yet. The judges took that all into consideration when determining the result, not just their performances there.
    After M&D's 1991 world title, they were heavy favorites for the OGM. For B&E (or anyone else) to win the OGM, M&D had to make major mistakes. Bechke & Petrov were good enough for silver, but never considered a threat to M&D for the gold because they were inconsistent. Up to that point B&E had been fairly consistent, and may be that's why they were considered challengers to M&D, but only if M&D made major mistakes. As it turned out, M&D did make a couple of mistakes in the 92 Olys, but B&E had a total meltdown. S&N and K&N were not considered bronze medal contenders in 1992; they were the pairs of the future (1994). Kuchiki-Sand and particularly Urbanski-Marvel were nowhere close to medal contenders (I am surprised that you even mentioned U&M). K&N and S&N were in bronze medal position because of their strong SP performances at the 92 Olys and not before the games. This was a somewhat weak pairs field, after the top 3 (M&D, B&E and B&P) with M&D clearly in a class by themselves.

    To get back on topic, B&E were not underrated at all. They won the silver at the 1990 worlds but were not really as good as M&D and even a clean B&P. The 92 Oly results reflected that. When B&E made mistakes, they were rightly marked down, but not enough. K&N should have placed higher, even with a fall in the LP.

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    Brasseur & Eisler were always considered above Becke & Petrov as amateurs. Had Brasseur & Eisler skated even decently they would have easily beaten B&P for the silver atleast. It was only in the pros when B&P began to succeed over B&E.

  8. #28
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    Brasseur & Eisler were always considered above Becke & Petrov as amateurs. Had Brasseur & Eisler skated even decently they would have easily beaten B&P for the silver atleast. It was only in the pros when B&P began to succeed over B&E.
    I don't necessarily disagree with the thought that had Brasseur & Eisler skated relatively cleanly, they would have placed 2nd, but I think that Bechke/Petrov skated better than they ever had at the '92 Olympics, although there had been previous "flashes" of, if not brilliance, what would have been considered excellent, "classic" pairs skating. There probably would have been some debate around the medal placements had B/E skated cleaner (but not perfectly) and eked out the silver ahead of that particular performance of B/P.

  9. #29
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    They werent underrated. The only time I ever thought they were undermarked was the 92 Worlds SP where they should have won the SP phase over M/D. Their LP was again disaesterous and overscored though, deserving only 4th or 5th but being gifted the bronze ala the Olympics. At the 1990 Worlds they probably should have beaten G/G in the LP, but probably also should have been behind one or both of Selezneva & Makarov and/or Miskutienok & Dmitriev. At the 1994 Olympics their LP marks were a bit low, but so were S/N, and S/N maybe deserved to beat them but didnt, although it was close. At the 94 Worlds their marks were again generous for how they skated, although she showed huge bravery with a bad injury. At the 91 Worlds they were overmarked and lucky to come as close to winning as they did, but that was expected as after their home cook aided silver at the 1990 Worlds they were favored going into the event and the sport was even more political and protocal heavy then than it is now.

  10. #30
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    Anyone who can afford figure skating lessons is far from 'trailer park trash' which is an absolutely appalling thing to say about anyone. As I said, I saw B&E skate and compete and they were both fast and smooth. The 1992 Olympics was without a doubt their worst competition and they were fortunate to win a bronze medal. They skated much better in 1994 even with Isabelle skating with cracked ribs. M&D were one of my favourite teams, but they deliberately placed their throws so that her two-footed landings would be hidden from the judges, and when K&N did win a world title it was with an error filled free skate.

  11. #31
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    I don't know if their score were ever correct or not but I really enjoyed them, far more than some of the top teams.

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