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  1. #61
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    lol. it is lucrative for all involved, but if the ones putting on the show are desparately unhappy with the process, then that should be addressed.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    lol. it is lucrative for all involved, but if the ones putting on the show are desparately unhappy with the process, then that should be addressed.
    Fine. I agree that Scott Moir and Patrick Chan should not have to suffer the trial of competing in April (the horror!). So, next time let's just have Team Italy go instead of Team Canada, since most of the other WTT participants do not seem averse to competing and the Italians are way more fun in the K&C anyway.

    Bring back Team Italy!

  3. #63
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    ^^ THIS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    Three-time world champion Patrick Chan supports a union for figure skaters, if only to prevent them from being exploited by the sport’s governing body.
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/skatin...e_dimanno.html
    “I would be at the forefront of supporting a union for skaters,” the three-peat world men’s champion from Toronto declares. “This is ridiculous. I just think we’re being manipulated for the benefit of the (International Skating Union) because they’re making all the money.”
    Wow, it seems like Patrick has been reading too much FSU ...

    Wasn't April Fool's three weeks ago already!


    Quote Originally Posted by Visaliakid View Post
    Right cause - Wrong spokesperson. Chan now has a bright red flag next to his name on Speedy's naughty list.

    Patrick, you just kissed your OGM goodbye!
    IMO (like someone else has already said), Patrick won't necessarily not win an OGM because of his recent comments. The Olympics is a year away and the new season is not near starting yet. So, by that time, Patrick may not be blowing the same horn. I think the ISU judges have proven that they are in love with Patrick's SS and will NOT be swayed by anyone or anything from continuing to reward Patrick (as has been proven). I will be surprised if Patrick continues making these pronouncements about the need for a skater's union and/ or make any attempt himself to organize one. He's gonna be too busy (like other skaters) training for the new season.

    His comments just seem like Patrick's usual tendency to complain because he's feeling put upon, and it's all about "Me, Me!" And, about him being so used to winning all the time, and he's unhappy about being forced to skate at WTT and not win, when he prefers to focus on the Road to Sochi and to winning OGM, as is his God-given ISU judges-given right, I suppose.

    OTOH, it is interesting to see a skater speak out, when most skaters have been so conditioned to Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil, but just shut-up and skate. However, Patrick is likely the anomaly in speaking out partly as a result of his having been irreparably spoiled big time by ISU judges and Canadian fed et al. His comments unfortunately seem like the golden boy, chosen one, SS God throwing a temper tantrum.

    As far as "good cause," IMO, it is the feds who need to join together to get rid of ISU and create a twenty-first century governing body made up of former coaches and former skaters in part, which would have the best interests of skaters and of figure skating foremost and exclusively in their sights.


    ITA with you BittyBug. I too found the below comment by Patrick the most interesting and revealing:

    Making the change to Detroit right before worlds was a huge risk, a leap of faith. But it really was the best thing that happened because I wouldn’t have squeaked out another gold medal if I hadn’t made that change.
    Patrick's above sentiments spark a lot of questions, IMO. Why exactly does Patrick feel he wouldn't have won Worlds in London had he not switched his training site to Detroit? He was not even in Detroit for that long before Worlds in any case. What was going on in Colorado that was so detrimental or uncomfortable?

    Patrick could also elaborate on why making the change was such a huge risk and a leap of faith. I think his taking on Kathy Johnson was much more of a huge risk and a leap of faith than switching training sites to a location that is closer to Canada and where he is surrounded by Canadian teammates. I disagree with those who constantly criticize and pick on Kathy Johnson, but still that decision by Patrick seems like more of a risk than switching training sites.

    As far as squeaking out another gold medal, I doubt the training site switch had anything at all to do with Patrick being awarded gold in London. Clearly ISU judges' decision-making, Patrick's SS, and IJS had much more to do with it -- and Pat might also give Jeff Buttle and Kathy Johnson a smidge of credit too.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 04-21-2013 at 09:22 PM.

  4. #64
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    As far as penalties for non-participation, there are three for top-ranked skaters who opt out:

    * The skater can't perform or compete between the Monday after Worlds and after WTT.
    * The ISU can drop the team altogether. While Team Italy is a win, I'm not sure the Japanese Fed or the Japanese media would have wanted the USA and Canada to be dropped.
    * The ISU can go for sanctions against the Federation. I think the last time they made noise about this is when Kwan and Plushenko only wanted to do their home GP and were uninterested in the rest of GP.

    If there's an injury withdrawal, the skater can't perform or compete until a date TBA. (I don't remember seeing where they actually announced it, and there was at least one injury withdrawal, B/S.) That shows it was meant to be punitive, at least partially, because all injuries aren't created equal, and one date doesn't apply to everyone's recovery schedule or the severity of their injuries. I saw a performance recently where the lead male pulled a muscle, another man took his place in the next act, and he came back for the last one.

    I misunderstood one of the paragraphs and thought that only the skaters whose scores were used to determine team eligibility, but that's not a requirement. The only skaters who were required to participate or face sanctions -- and it looks like only the first bullet applied -- were:

    * For singles: One of the two top-ranked skaters from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.
    * For teams: The top-ranked team from the country AND Top 10 at Worlds.

    The only skaters who were required to participate, barring injury withdrawal, were:

    USA: D/W, Gold, Wagner. The top-ranked US pair is Denney/Coughlin, who weren't at Worlds. Max Aaron, the only Top 10 US man at Worlds, is ranked 5th among US senior Men, 7th among all US Men.

    Canada: V/M, D/R, Chan, Reynolds, Osmond.

    France: P/B*, J/C, Joubert.

    China: P/T*, Li

    Japan: R/R, Murakami, Takahashi, Hanyu*. (Asada is the third-ranked Japanese Lady, top-ranked Suzuki was not Top 10 at Worlds.)

    Russia: V/T, B/S*, Sotnikova. (Tuktamysheva is the third-ranked Russian Lady; Leonova is first-ranked.)

    *injured, although I'm not sure whose name was submitted officially and had a medical withdrawal.

    There is no provision that, well, W/P are second-ranked and top 10, so we can pretend they meet the criteria. Technically, the ISU couldn't have sanctioned Canada for replacing V/M with W/P than they could have if they had replaced Chan with third-ranked Rogozine.

    None of Zoueva's teams competed. While C/B placed one ahead of S/S, S/S are the second-ranked US team. They didn't go either. You can imagine the conversation: "How come I have to go, when V/M can just decide not to?" "Well, we can get away with sending W/P, who are Top 5 at Worlds and one rank out of being required to go, but, Patrick, sending Rogozine would look like a dis." I think that's where the "There's no one at my level" talk is coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Yeah, and forcing them to accept lots of $---that's the final insult!
    Being forced to go and making money is better than being forced to go and not making money, but it's clear that his preference is not going, at least at that time, and not making money.

    The skaters get the gala after Worlds and their big blow out party. For some, WTT is a fun event with teammates before an appreciative audience in a great country, a way to blow off steam before the next season begins. For others, their heads are already out of this season and onto the next thing, whether that be SOI, preparing for next season, or hanging out on the sea. It's not keeping in shape to perform their Worlds programs weeks later.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-21-2013 at 09:31 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visaliakid View Post
    Right cause - Wrong spokesperson. Chan now has a bright red flag next to his name on Speedy's naughty list.

    Patrick, you just kissed your OGM goodbye!
    In a way I think his willingness to say anything makes him the right spokesperson. He will definitely bring up any cause that the skaters have, and if people don't agree, he takes the flack, no matter whose cause he's discussing.

  6. #66
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    I was hoping that this would be a "figure skaters of the world unite against DiManno" article.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by screech View Post
    In a way I think his willingness to say anything makes him the right spokesperson. He will definitely bring up any cause that the skaters have, and if people don't agree, he takes the flack, no matter whose cause he's discussing.
    The "right spokesperson," for what exactly?

    Figure Skaters United Against WTT Being Held After Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Patrick Chan Having to Skate at WTT After A Disappointing Win at London Worlds???

    Figure Skaters United Against Being Exploited by the ISU??? (This type of cause might be long overdue, but it ain't gonna receive any traction with Patrick as spokesperson, IMHO). Patrick has been largely the one being generously gifted under IJS, so what exactly is his beef? Is it: "I want to skate when and where I want to skate and win all the time!"

  8. #68
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    If the skaters do unionize, and my favorite skating cutie, www.ivstatic.com/files/et/imagecache/636/files/slides/Rachael_Flatt-477.jpg decides to, or is required to as part of her union dues, skate to this song: http://unionsong.com/u103.html, then I Jeremy Denton a/k/a Jot the Dot Dot, will volunteer to perform a personal visual inspection ;-)

  9. #69
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    Patrick shut up. Tired at end of season sure so are your competitors.
    Should have skated in 1997/1998 season like michelle did. Started in october 1997 ended in July of 1998 with the Goodwill games. She did worlds after Olympics too. Also,a pro am.
    How about other years that did pro ams in May. Did the skaters admit being tire yes, but they also adfmited their competitors were too.
    They didnt insult the fans, media, public.
    Want to be like kurt, shut up. I dont remember kurt saying bad things about other skaters or implying better than,anyone else, thought it sure. Didnt state to public.
    Last edited by query5; 04-22-2013 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Correction

  10. #70
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    In past years skaters skated in pro am events in May and they were less important than,the wtt event.,
    The skaters admited to being tired but didnt insult irbrun anyine down becausr all in same boat.
    The viewing public wouldnt look kindly on them. Might hurt the skater trying to sell public regardless if color of medal.

    Heard of the word Sportmanlike conduct.

  11. #71
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    Wow figure skating is down.
    You wonder why
    You think. Imagine that.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    I do hope skaters become unionized in the future, though.
    Skaters belong to their federations, right? don't they then compete under the rules of their federations? how would a skater's union work?

    I've heard the argument that Patrick is young and speaks without thinking and that he will learn for at least 4 years. It's past time for him to have learned and it is past time for hiring a PR team that zips his remarks by having someone always present with him.

  13. #73

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    Patrick Chanís new mantra: figure skaters of the world unite: DiManno

    I think that Chan needs to learn how to deal with print journalists. His TV interviews are better for some reason. That being said, reading this article made me really miss Randy Starkman.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  14. #74

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    I'm really loving Chan <3 And I'm not being sarcastic

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    I think that Chan needs learn how to deal with print journalists. His TV interviews better for some reason. That being said, reading this article made me really miss Randy Starkman.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    all the more reason to have a PR person sitting right next to him. I am not sure that his TV interviews are better

  16. #76

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    Patrick Chanís new mantra: figure skaters of the world unite: DiManno

    Quote Originally Posted by numbers123 View Post
    all the more reason to have a PR person sitting right next to him. I am not sure that his TV interviews are better
    Agree about the PR. His TV interviews are OK.


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  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Agree about the PR. His TV interviews are OK.
    TV interviews allow us to hear what was being asked and what he was answering in relation to. 'Print inteviews' is a summary of the interview. How it is summarised or presented may depend on the writer.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. Ė Publilius Syrus

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    at some ChanĎs words.
    for his honesty.
    But I am a little concerned about from ISU and from Japanese audiences. (rightly so, in the latter case)
    Is it the same Patrick Chan?

    Patrick Chan ‏@Pchiddy 15 Apr
    Thank you Tokyo for cheering Team Canada on all week long! Can't wait to come back soon. Domo Arigato!


    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Fine. I agree that Scott Moir and Patrick Chan should not have to suffer the trial of competing in April (the horror!). So, next time let's just have Team Italy go instead of Team Canada, since most of the other WTT participants do not seem averse to competing and the Italians are way more fun in the K&C anyway.
    Agreed. The ISU should not send the better teams or better skaters to WTT but those who genuinely enjoy competing at this event. I hope they'll keep that in mind for 2015.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    As far as "good cause," IMO, it is the feds who need to join together to get rid of ISU and create a twenty-first century governing body made up of former coaches and former skaters in part, which would have the best interests of skaters and of figure skating foremost and exclusively in their sights.
    Exactly what the World Skating Federation wanted to be.

    Dick Button announced the formation of the World Skating Federation to the general public during his coverage of the 2003 World Figure Skating Championships. The WSF has been formed as a new international skating organization with the purpose of becoming the new IOC-recognized international governing body for the sport of figure skating. The WSF is an athlete-centered organization. It has zero tolerance for misconduct; has accountability in judging; and is respectful of its members and dissenting opinions.

    The list of the federation's Planning Committee is truly impressive including world renowned coaches, former ISU officials, journalists, judges, referees and skaters such as Ron Pfenning, Sonia Bianchetti Garbato, Kathy Casey, Ted Clarke, Judit Furst-Tombor, Jane Garden, Jon Jackson, Lorrie Kim, Britta Lindgren, Sandra Loosemore, Donald McKnight, John Nicks, J. Misha Petkevich, Barbara and Howard Silby, Sally-Anne Stapleford and Paul Wylie. Supporting athletes include Brian Boitano, Kurt Browning, Dick Button, Frances Dafoe, Drobiazko and Vanagas, Todd Eldredge, Scott Hamilton, Salť and Pelletier, Katarina Witt and Kristi Yamaguchi.


    http://www.icesk8.com/olympics.htm
    Do you happen to know why they failed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    Do you happen to know why they failed?
    I remember very soon after WSF was announced the IOC just flat out said, not a chance. The ISU and IOC are both very Euro-centric...

  20. #80
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    I am not a fan of Chan's skating, but I admire his taking the risks of saying this. Skaters, for too long, have been at the mercy of their feds and the ISU. Even if there are avenues for grievance, skaters seem reluctant to take them for fear of repercussions. The skaters have power; they need to use it.

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