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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Obligatory disclaimer: it is a DiManno piece.

    I think there is plenty to criticize when it comes to the ISU, and skaters could benefit from working together to effect certain changes. But I'm not sure Chan is the best person to lead the way. And this was completely out of line:

    I would think that the many people in the stands, who were wonderfully supportive of the skaters, created quite a nice atmosphere - and not just for the top skaters. Criticize the ISU if you want, but don't bitch about the Japanese fans.
    ...
    Yeah, Rosie is pretty bad.
    I thought he was referring to his training rink and saying that there wasn't the same incentive to train because the season felt over to him. I still find this article really funny, lol.

  2. #22

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    Skaters particularly Patrick should be banned from talking to Rosie DiManno and Phil Hersh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Interesting that Chan is concerned about getting injured while at the WTT but apparently has no worries about possibly injuring himself while training or doing shows. I don't wish him ill in that regard, but the odds of injury aren't higher just because one dislikes an event.
    I would think that training for shows is different from training for competitions. There are no rules to follow in shows and the choreographer and skater can do what they like best. WTT may be best moved to a date where the skaters are more comfortable and rested.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. Ė Publilius Syrus

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    I thought he was referring to his training rink and saying that there wasn't the same incentive to train because the season felt over to him. I still find this article really funny, lol.
    I guess that's possible. But training at an empty rink is never as exciting as skating in a championship - yet surely he should have learned how to motivate himself by now?

    Joubert said that he didn't really get much training in between Worlds and the WTT, but he didn't complain about the event or its timing; it was just mentioned as a statement of fact. I guess Brian is now the diplomatic elder statesman? I'm pretty sure he was the oldest singles skater at Worlds and the WTT...

    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Skaters particularly Patrick should be banned from talking to Rosie DiManno and Phil Hersh!

    I would think that training for shows is different from training for competitions. There are no rules to follow in shows and the choreographer and skater can do what they like best. WTT may be best moved to a date where the skaters are more comfortable and rested.
    The only real mishap in the first two WTTs that I can recall happened in the gala. Isabel Delobel suffered a shoulder injury while skating in a gala, ending DelSchoes' pre-Olympic season. And I meant that skaters can injure themselves in training before and during the season, though obviously I hope it'll be an injury-free Olympic season (not likely, I know...)

    I think you meant that Rosie should be banned from covering skating? That said, Patrick has managed to say some things over the years to many reporters, not just her. At this point it can't just be written off as youth and inexperience; either he doesn't understand how to deal with the media, or he's doing it on purpose.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post

    He definitely needs to be more careful about what he says. He's young, he'll learn.
    Will he?!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Isabel Delobel suffered a shoulder injury while skating in a gala, ending DelSchoes' pre-Olympic season.
    That was at GPF, unlike Dube/Davison's. What a shame.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    That was at GPF, unlike Dube/Davison's.
    I know. I didn't say that she was injured in the WTT, because they never competed there - I was just giving examples of the dangerous nature of galas

    Also and about DelSchoes. Maybe if the injury hadn't happened, she would have waited to have the baby and they would have medalled in Vancouver...

  7. #27

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    So let's see, Patrick competed the grand total of 6 times this season, that includes WTT and may be missing any club competitions he may have done in the summer that I'm not aware of. Swimmers usually do at least ten competitions per year and that includes the champions, football players have a game at least once per week but they are professionals so that's different... In short, a top level figure skater doesn't do that many competitions per season, I understand that it must feel bad not to be able to refuse to do a competition but that's what happens when someone pays for your training, or is Patrick refusing Skate Canada's money now too?
    Japan is probably the biggest market for figure skaters right now, if I were one I'd be thrilled to have a large Japanese fanbase! It's unfortunate that the ISU has to establish rules to force the top skaters to do more than just nationals and worlds... because it's sad that some skaters would rather just do that...

  8. #28
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    Chan could have said it better or in a more subtle way, but I agree with some points in the quoted statements. It’s a stupid event badly conceived in the first place, complete with authoritarian participation rules with ridiculous penalties for absentees.
    Frankly, I think he is absolutely right. The ISU is mostly interested in their bank balance. I think the national federations probably have broader agendas, but really nobody has the interests of the skaters first and foremost.

    It isn't just the dopey Team event that has those rules. The GP series also has authoritarian participation rules with ridiculous penalties. They regulate what top skaters can do during that whole section of the calendar, they prohibit participation in exhibitions around the time of Worlds, they even regulate what shows or tours skaters can do in the off season.

    None of that has anything to do with maintaining fair play in the athletic arena. It is all about protecting the ISU's monopoly. There aren't many other lines of work where one isn't entitled to sell their services when and where they want.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Frankly, I think he is absolutely right. The ISU is mostly interested in their bank balance. I think the national federations probably have broader agendas, but really nobody has the interests of the skaters first and foremost.

    It isn't just the dopey Team event that has those rules. The GP series also has authoritarian participation rules with ridiculous penalties. They regulate what top skaters can do during that whole section of the calendar, they prohibit participation in exhibitions around the time of Worlds, they even regulate what shows or tours skaters can do in the off season.

    None of that has anything to do with maintaining fair play in the athletic arena. It is all about protecting the ISU's monopoly. There aren't many other lines of work where one isn't entitled to sell their services when and where they want.
    The ISU should make sure it's doing well financially and protect its interests, though of course this should not be done in a manner harmful to the skaters. But requiring participation in certain events is not harmful or onerous, contrary to what Chan suggests. All sports have rules in place regarding what athletes can or cannot do, compensation, restrictions etc.

    In some sports, athletes face much stricter rules than skaters do. Major League Baseball, for instance, has probably the strongest players' union in professional sports. Yet players get drafted and have no say in what organization they will go into. They are then under that organization's control at the minor league level for - what is it, 6 years? - during which time they can be sent anywhere, any time, be paid next to nothing and expected to play a far more punishing schedule in far less luxurious settings than skaters, and they don't get a profitable sideline that's equivalent to skating shows. Once in the majors, the financial compensation is fantastic, but players can still be sent down, traded, placed on waivers. Free agency comes after six years at the major league level - that can be a decade and more into a someone's professional career before they can sell their services when and where they want. Baseball is just one example, there are obviously others; all major American sports have a draft, for instance. If you want to compete, you have to play by those rules. If the rules are legally problematic, that's another matter. But I don't think that's the case with skating.

    I really don't think skaters have it all that bad. Perhaps the money isn't what it used to be, but a skater of Chan's level can still earn a fair bit via prize money and shows and is free to participate in them at his convenience for much of the year. I'm sorry if I can't work up much sympathy for him, and would rather look at the benefits the WTT has for fans and for other skaters, who can earn substantial prize money at a low-stress competition.

    I do support unionization for skaters. I think it can do a lot of good and there are areas in which this would ensure better treatment and protections for skaters. But that's not the case Patrick is making, and his "woe is me" argument is not a good way of going about it.

  10. #30
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    What is there to say? I just wish he was more self-aware and recognized how what he's saying could reasonably be interpreted. Zemgirl's quote in particular strikes me as just lunatic of him. But in general, I don't understand the decisions and comments he's made.

  11. #31
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    As a Chan fan I really hope he is more tactful in his opinions because there are journalists out there to get him and I worry about the backlash he could get from the ISU.

    That being said, 1. I don't think it's fair to compare ISU's rules to MLB/NBA or any other professional sports organization because well...ISU regulates amateur sports; and 2. I also don't think it's an apple to apple comparison on how many times a figure skater competes a year to athletes of other sports like baseball or swimming. The nature of preparation for these sports are very different as far as I know and what they need to do out there on the field to play are also very very different.

    I bet Chan is not the only skater to hold this opinion on WTT but unfortunately he is the outspoken one and it could bite him in the ass.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post

    ... He's young, he'll learn...
    People have been saying that for years now. I guess he's a very slow learner.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  13. #33

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    Right cause - Wrong spokesperson. Chan now has a bright red flag next to his name on Speedy's naughty list.

    Patrick, you just kissed your OGM goodbye!
    There is nothing more captivating in this world than a woman's form gracing the ice in skating boots. It's simply sensational!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    People have been saying that for years now. I guess he's a very slow learner.
    Or not aging.

  15. #35
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    I'm surprised no one has commented on this remark:

    ďAt my level, I can find the best out of any kind of change. I was due for one. I didnít want to go to the Olympics without having done that. I wouldnít be a fulfilled skater, an Olympic champion whoís done everything possible to get to where he is. So, that was a risk I took. I knew what was best for me. The ice sessions in Detroit are much more catered to elite skaters. I donít have to fight for music, I donít have to fight for my space on the ice. I donít have to deal with drama with coaches, everyone gets along.
    I admire confidence in an athlete, but Chan seems to be presuming that he'll win gold in Sochi, and I suppose why wouldn't he, when he can splat all over the ice and still receive the highest program component scores from the judges.

    His comments make it clear that he believes that he is above all others. His sense of entitlement is ridiculous, but it's no wonder he wanted to move to a less crowded rink - he needs the extra space for his outsized ego.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    People have been saying that for years now. I guess he's a very slow learner.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Or not aging.
    PChiddy, a vampire?

  17. #37
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    ďAt my level, I can find the best out of any kind of change. I was due for one. I didnít want to go to the Olympics without having done that. I wouldnít be a fulfilled skater, an Olympic champion whoís done everything possible to get to where he is.
    I guess the Olympic gold medal already has Patrick's name inscribed on it, and he's probably right for thinking that, as he has a three fall cushion.

  18. #38

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    I'm not sure he has any cushion now. He's put foot in mouth for years but this one feels different & I definitely think it will come back to haunt him. We'll know at his 1st GP next year.

    As for a potential injury at a (to him) worthless event, I remember Todd Eldredge dislocating his shoulder from a fall while just merely skating around the rink to warm up. No one can guarantee that he can be injury-free whether they do the WTT or not.

    Instead of bitching, why not suggest a better time for the WTT? IMO about a wk or 2 before the 1st GP would be a good time. Skaters could get their new programs out there & see how their content stacks up against the competition & what they need to tweak. Everyone would be fresh & there would be new programs to see.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I think I have actually turned the corner.... I think I have hated Chan so much that I now actually like him!!! I am that he is saying this stuff. It's like this is an article from the Onion. I mean he's at Pasha levels of insanity, and I am digging it.

    Oh Patrick, I know you don't mean that the way it sounds, but... Cause it sounds like "Who cares if old Menshov gets injured, it could have been ME!"
    Hahaha, my sentiments mirror yours. Love his skating when he's on, used to hate his personality, but at this point he is only shooting himself in the foot so it has entertainment value.

  20. #40
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    I agree with the sentiments about WTT - I can't think of it as anything but a fluff pro-am without the pros - but this just comes across as sour grapes. Agree that he wouldn't be saying these things if he'd skated well.

    Any possibility that he's making these statements to lay groundwork to NOT compete in the Oly team event? I have been totally sticking my fingers in my ears about that event, so I don't really know the criteria, but I was under the impression that Oly individual event skaters must perform in the team event unless there are more skaters from that country competing in their event than the country has slots on the team event...or something.

    Agree with taf that having WTT before the start of the season would make more sense - skaters would take it seriously to have a chance to get mileage on their programs, and have time to make any adjustments before GP starts. Wasn't the GWG comp right before GP? I thought that worked well.
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