View Poll Results: Who is the Best Ladies Ice Dancer?

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  • Natalia Linichuk

    0 0%
  • Natalia Bestemianova

    3 2.13%
  • Marina Klimova

    27 19.15%
  • Oksana Grishuk

    21 14.89%
  • Anjelika Krylova

    5 3.55%
  • Marina Anissina

    5 3.55%
  • Barbara Fusar-Poli

    2 1.42%
  • Tatiana Navka

    9 6.38%
  • Elena Grishina

    2 1.42%
  • Isabelle Delobel

    3 2.13%
  • Tessa Virtue

    46 32.62%
  • Other

    18 12.77%
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  1. #21
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    I have a question for those of you who are dance experts...I absolutely loved V/M's Flamenco OD and Waltz/Polka SD, but I know they weren't as well received here. I agree that for the flamenco, maybe Pechelat/Bourzat and Anissina/Peizerat showed more character, but there was just something about the way V/M performed that dance that sold me. While A/P and P/B went for a more subtle approach, I liked the intensity and aggression with V/M's dance. As for the Waltz/Polka SD, I thought I understood the theme well (which if I remember correctly, the criticism was that there wasn't a coherent theme). It sort of reminded me of Civil War or antebellum (or any other military ball) dance with a soldier seeing a beautiful woman from afar and falling in love with her.

    Do you guys think those dances got a fair shake with overall fans here or are the criticisms of those dances more valid than I'm giving them credit for?

  2. #22
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    IMO, V&M's flamenco had some of the best upper body work I have ever seen, and yes, the intensity was amazing, and I love that the elements were integrated into the dance, with the lifts seemingly appearing out of nowhere. However, even as a V&M fan I thought they could've done a better job matching their footwork to all the beats and claps in the music. A&P and L&A in 2002 were much stronger in that respect, but then without having a technical specialist there was more flexibility to do stomping and toe steps where they needed them.

    I thought this year's SD from V&M was very strong. They didn't carry a "polka feel" throughout the dance, but I don't remember any criticism for not carrying a rhumba theme throughout last year, or a waltz theme throughout the dance in 2011. When they did polka it was excellent fast polka, and when they waltzed it was an excellent waltz, and on such clean, fluid edges, with effortless speed. The theme was a bit confusing, but that shouldn't matter so much in the marks.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    I guess some took the poll to say "who is your favorite female ice dancer" or maybe "what female ice dancer do you like most". The poll was who is the best.

    I took the poll question as something that relates to the specific sport in which these skaters are competing, which is pretty specific technically.
    It is pretty specific technically, but what was expected technically has changed over time. As one example, K/P were technically brilliant and considered to have very difficult programs during the time they were competing. They're not as difficult overall when compared to a CoP era program. Skating skills, however, are pretty much the same. The standards for good skating skills now are the same as they were back then. I'm sort of rambling, but it can get a bit tricky to rank different skaters from different eras because of differences in what was expected in terms of technical difficulty. As one example, Klimova and Usova both had fabulous, fabulous basics, so those two and Tessa are all pretty close. When Klimova and Usova were competing though, the technical difficulty of the elements was not what it is today, but skating skills counted under the tech mark and quite heavily. I forgot who it was, Ponomarenko perhaps, who said rather recently that the teams competing 20+ years ago couldn't do the elements that the teams today do, but that a lot of the teams today can't do what the teams 20 years ago were able to do in some aspects (I think skating skills were overall, top team-to-bottom team, better in the past). What Tessa does at blade level is impressive, but some of these women from the past were also equally impressive.

    FWIW, I ended up going with Tessa as I think she's the best mix of ability to perform outstanding difficulty in elements for the time in which she is competing, skating skills, and ability to dance, amongst other qualities.
    Last edited by aka_gerbil; 04-20-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    IMO, V&M's flamenco had some of the best upper body work I have ever seen, and yes, the intensity was amazing, and I love that the elements were integrated into the dance, with the lifts seemingly appearing out of nowhere. However, even as a V&M fan I thought they could've done a better job matching their footwork to all the beats and claps in the music. A&P and L&A in 2002 were much stronger in that respect, but then without having a technical specialist there was more flexibility to do stomping and toe steps where they needed them.

    I thought this year's SD from V&M was very strong. They didn't carry a "polka feel" throughout the dance, but I don't remember any criticism for not carrying a rhumba theme throughout last year, or a waltz theme throughout the dance in 2011. When they did polka it was excellent fast polka, and when they waltzed it was an excellent waltz, and on such clean, fluid edges, with effortless speed. The theme was a bit confusing, but that shouldn't matter so much in the marks.
    Thanks for the explanation. Your posts have probably given me the most educational posts I've seen in ice dance.

    I just didn't have a problem with the way Zoeuva integrated the polka into the waltz. I felt it was a very organic segue into it like you'd see at a ball. You have a waltz and then things speed up into a polka, then another "slow" dance. I thought it was pretty true-to-life. Plus, we can't really complain about them not carrying a polka theme throughout when it really wasn't required considering the type of SDs we got this season from many other teams.

    Speaking of Waltzes, I have to bring up Klimova/Ponomarenko's brilliant Waltz OSP (the prototype to the Golden Waltz or as Alex Shibutani called it "the really hard waltz"). To me, this is perfection personified.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8JCK7YPqRY

  5. #25
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    This is too difficult....so many great dancers on that list. Ice dance is what drew me to figure skating. I had watched it with my family here and there but i first became a big fan of FS when I saw K&P, the Duchesnays, and U&Z in the 1992 Olympics. I really cannot choose but I enjoy reading the different opinions in these polls, though, so thanks for starting this one

    ETA: K&P's waltz OSP

  6. #26
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    VIETgrlTERIFA, what criteria made you choose the ones you have put on your list, and made you omit others? I understand you intended to include a lot more than you actually could due to poll restrictions...
    I voted for "other", meaning foremost Albena Denkova.
    It would have been nice to see Isabelle Duchesnay and Maya Usova on the list, too, but maybe I think more of "favourite" now.

  7. #27

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    Any poll of greatest ice dancers that includes Elena Grushina, Natalia Linichuk, Barbara Fusar-Poli & Isabelle Delobel and doesn't include Jayne Torvill or Lyudmila Pakhomova or Albena Denkova is one strange poll.

    I voted for Jayne Torvill (other)
    Runnup Pakhomova.
    Last edited by DORISPULASKI; 04-21-2013 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #28
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    It's a poll, not a vote for president.

    I would have a hard time choosing even with Jane on the list.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    It's a poll, not a vote for president.

    I would have a hard time choosing even with Jane on the list.
    Absolutely. I haven't voted because I simply cannot pick between Klimova and Virtue. Too difficult.

  10. #30
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    I'm sad there's only one vote for Anissina (and it's mine). Where are all A/P fans? Maybe it's because Marina was the one who made me love figure skating, but imo, she's the best.
    I agree with everything stated here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Anissina had such a strong character on the ice, she was feminine, yet also clearly tough. She had beautiful edges, extension.... everything you could want, really. I've no reason not to vote for her as best ever. Today's programs are so packed that often the old 6.0 programs don't stand up technically... I watch them and think "that was it?" (in contrast, the CoP ones are weaker in terms of transitions and interpretation). A&P aren't one of those... their elements look fantastic even now, and the programs are very difficult... she keeps moving throughout the program, putting in lots of turns...
    As for the lifts, sure, they weren't as complicated as they're now, but I appreciate how A/P came with completely new lifts each season, they always went great with the music and were very original and difficult. http://b.imdoc.fr/1/cinema-televisio...ssina2-img.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd2_prac8.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd1_comp3.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd2_20.jpg Aso I think some of them were an inspiration for future generations of dancers: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/icegallery/EuroAPFDpr47-26A.jpg and Marina's positions were always great.

    But what I probably appreciate the most about Marina was her ability to interpret and sell all the progrms and different dance styles. I love how she was able to change completely, not only in expression, but also movements, from passion or drama to lyrical romantic pieces like Romeo and Juliete or their My Sweet and Tender Best I also love how she knew to make fun of herself. I still cant believe I saw that seriously looking Marina skate in flippers and snorkel Also, I love how much attention she paid to details, in choreography, but also in dresses, hairstyle,... Simply number one for me, with Klimova being number 2...I really love Marinas

    Btw. as for V/M's Flamenco, I loved the passion and energy they put into it, but I find it less in style compared to A/P or P/B for exemple in details such as work with fingers, which is incredibly important in Flamenco, especially for the girls.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykr View Post
    I'm sad there's only one vote for Anissina (and it's mine). Where are all A/P fans? Maybe it's because Marina was the one who made me love figure skating, but imo, she's the best.
    I agree with everything stated here:



    As for the lifts, sure, they weren't as complicated as they're now, but I appreciate how A/P came with completely new lifts each season, they always went great with the music and were very original and difficult. http://b.imdoc.fr/1/cinema-televisio...ssina2-img.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd2_prac8.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd1_comp3.jpg http://figureskating.free.fr/ap_gpf01_fd2_20.jpg Aso I think some of them were an inspiration for future generations of dancers: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/icegallery/EuroAPFDpr47-26A.jpg and Marina's positions were always great.

    But what I probably appreciate the most about Marina was her ability to interpret and sell all the progrms and different dance styles. I love how she was able to change completely, not only in expression, but also movements, from passion or drama to lyrical romantic pieces like Romeo and Juliete or their My Sweet and Tender Best I also love how she knew to make fun of herself. I still cant believe I saw that seriously looking Marina skate in flippers and snorkel Also, I love how much attention she paid to details, in choreography, but also in dresses, hairstyle,... Simply number one for me, with Klimova being number 2...I really love Marinas

    Btw. as for V/M's Flamenco, I loved the passion and energy they put into it, but I find it less in style compared to A/P or P/B for exemple in details such as work with fingers, which is incredibly important in Flamenco, especially for the girls.
    i also love anissina for she and gwendal were the ones that first drew me in to ice dance, and while i think tessa is more nimble on her feet given the requirements of CoP, i agree with most of your points about marina. hence my vote. tessa is a very close second for me and i actually flipflop between the two.

    as for the flamenco, i will always remember a/p's and p/b's more, especially a/p's, and compare subsequent flamencoes to those teams. zazoui came up with such awesome flamencoes for her teams!

    i was really hoping for a blues sd for the sochi games so i could see v/m do a blues-based number similar to a/p's blues olympic cd. that was one hot cd!

  12. #32
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    As excellent as Anissina was, I didn't particularly like the way she often threw herself into her positions rather than placing herself in them. It made A&P's unison and timing look sloppy and suspect. I personally don't consider her quite in the same league as Virtue, Klimova, or Grishuk. I know many will disagree and that's completely fine.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. Your posts have probably given me the most educational posts I've seen in ice dance.

    I just didn't have a problem with the way Zoeuva integrated the polka into the waltz. I felt it was a very organic segue into it like you'd see at a ball. You have a waltz and then things speed up into a polka, then another "slow" dance. I thought it was pretty true-to-life. Plus, we can't really complain about them not carrying a polka theme throughout when it really wasn't required considering the type of SDs we got this season from many other teams.

    Speaking of Waltzes, I have to bring up Klimova/Ponomarenko's brilliant Waltz OSP (the prototype to the Golden Waltz or as Alex Shibutani called it "the really hard waltz"). To me, this is perfection personified.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8JCK7YPqRY
    I love that OSP. I remember reading a quote from some ice dancers that doing the golden waltz CD is harder than doing an entire free dance. The timing has to be dead on yet it has to appear effortless and graceful. But there's no place for any stroking in order to gain any speed. Truly a masterpiece of choreography and it also really demonstrated how incredible K&P's edges were.
    Last edited by gk_891; 04-21-2013 at 03:29 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyjosie View Post
    It would have been nice to see Isabelle Duchesnay and Maya Usova on the list, too, but maybe I think more of "favourite" now.
    After watching the VHS ISU compulsories (the one from 1993) with our coach, Maia Usova is far from being the best dancer ever. I was really surprised but the way our coach showed us every flaw of her technique was obvious !
    And Isabelle Duchesnay, I think she, herself, doesn't think she is among the best dancers ever

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    After watching the VHS ISU compulsories (the one from 1993) with our coach, Maia Usova is far from being the best dancer ever. I was really surprised but the way our coach showed us every flaw of her technique was obvious !
    And Isabelle Duchesnay, I think she, herself, doesn't think she is among the best dancers ever
    Usova's compulsories were not the greatest for sure, especially relative to skaters like Klimova, Grishuk, and Torvill. I still remember the 94 Olympics during the blues CD and they showed a big close-up of U/Z's chocktaw and you very clearly see her starting off on a back inside edge and then sliding over to a back outside one. Yet that was somehow used as an example of a good chocktaw! Sad thing was that it was still a big improvement for them since at the 92 Olympics, Usova couldn't even be bothered to slide over to the correct back outside edge as she simply did a back inside one instead each and every time.

  16. #36
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    I find this to be a common issue with the choctaws. I noticed it a lot last year with the Canton female dncers, which is why thy were missing the second key point in the rhumba. They were not getting cleanly on the outside edge. They either hit flats or got on their inside edges and rolled over onto the outside (I always wtch the pattern dances and footwork sequences in slow motion afterwards to see these things). I like Nathalie's choctaw--great blade placement.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    I find this to be a common issue with the choctaws. I noticed it a lot last year with the Canton female dncers, which is why thy were missing the second key point in the rhumba. They were not getting cleanly on the outside edge. They either hit flats or got on their inside edges and rolled over onto the outside (I always wtch the pattern dances and footwork sequences in slow motion afterwards to see these things). I like Nathalie's choctaw--great blade placement.
    Very true. But Marina Klimova, Oksana Grishuk and Jayne Torvill don't seem to have such a problem with their choctaws (thanks for clarifying the spelling). I think that shows what superior skaters they were relative to Usova.

  18. #38

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    And, for that matter, relative to Virtue & Davis & Shibutani.

    And it's one more reason why it is a total travesty that Jayne Torvill is not on this list.

  19. #39

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    I thought Platov said in an interview that none of the female ice dancers of his time did the edges of the chocktaw correctly in the Rhumba. I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember it 100%.

    Ah, here's the source: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...ussian-skaters

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    And, for that matter, relative to Virtue & Davis & Shibutani.

    And it's one more reason why it is a total travesty that Jayne Torvill is not on this list.
    So I made a mistake. Sorry. I know you're speaking in hyperbole, but "total travesty" and "strange poll" is a bit much. Just pretend this thread actually says "Best Ladies Ice Dancer who is NOT Jayne Torvill or Pakhomova" to feel better, then get over it.

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