View Poll Results: Who is the Best Ladies Ice Dancer?

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  • Natalia Linichuk

    0 0%
  • Natalia Bestemianova

    3 2.13%
  • Marina Klimova

    27 19.15%
  • Oksana Grishuk

    21 14.89%
  • Anjelika Krylova

    5 3.55%
  • Marina Anissina

    5 3.55%
  • Barbara Fusar-Poli

    2 1.42%
  • Tatiana Navka

    9 6.38%
  • Elena Grishina

    2 1.42%
  • Isabelle Delobel

    3 2.13%
  • Tessa Virtue

    46 32.62%
  • Other

    18 12.77%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by literaryfreak View Post
    I thought Platov said in an interview that none of the female ice dancers of his time did the edges of the chocktaw correctly in the Rhumba. I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember it 100%.

    Ah, here's the source: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...ussian-skaters
    Interesting. But I've watched Klimova's choctaws, Grishuk's choctaws, and Torvill's choctaws during the blues CD and I'm still not detecting a back inside edge rather than the required back outside one. If they didn't do it properly, they did a much better job of disguising it than Usova sure did. Perhaps it was only during the rhumba CD? I haven't really watched that particular CD very closely (as I'm not a fan of it).

  2. #42

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    This poll causes death in the soul. There is only one contemporary ice-dancer that a case can be made for.

  3. #43
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    If we're talking best, I have to go with Tessa Virtue. She has amazing skating skills and great technique and also moves her body very well.

    However, my favorite female ice dancer is Tatiana Navka. I love the way that she carries herself on the ice. She has such charisma and an unmatched sexiness. She was also an amazing skater and dancer in her own right and has beautiful lines.

  4. #44
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    Love Navka too and ITA about the sexiness. Incredible presence and gorgeous line. And Tessa is such a complete dancer that she is definitely in the top group for me...i just find it impossible to choose a winner.

    Regarding the rhumba choctaws, they really are so tricky and I don't feel they are necessarily reflective of overall technique, imo. It is funny because Usova had beautiful turnout so one might think she would have an easier time with that partcular step, but it is so difficult to place the blade right in time on the outside edge and get that backwards momentum. I wonder if we watched Klimova, Gritschuk, and Torville perform their respective choctaws in slow motion if we might sometimes see the same issue I identified with the Canton females, but I take your point about hiding it, gk_891. I've always felt that Usova's overall edge control and all-around technique was excellent. What other things did your coach point to, briancoogaert, if you don't mind sharing. I find these discussions fascinating
    Last edited by Bournekraatzfan; 04-22-2013 at 05:50 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    Love Navka too and ITA about the sexiness. Incredible presence and gorgeous line. And Tessa is such a complete dancer that she is definitely in the top group for me...i just find it impossible to choose a winner.

    Regarding the rhumba choctaws, they really are so tricky and I don't feel they are necessarily reflective of overall technique, imo. It is funny because Usova had beautiful turnout so one might think she would have an easier time with that partcular step, but it is so difficult to place the blade right in time on the outside edge and get that backwards momentum. I wonder if we watched Klimova, Gritschuk, and Torville perform their respective choctaws in slow motion if we might sometimes see the same issue I identified with the Canton females, but I take your point about hiding it, gk_891. I've always felt that Usova's overall edge control and all-around technique was excellent. What other things did your coach point to, briancoogaert, if you don't mind sharing. I find these discussions fascinating
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBD0gO7pd7g
    For all of you who haven't seen the Navka sex factor yet

  6. #46

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    Jayne Torvill. If she had her own category I think she would have more votes.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  7. #47

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    Why is Meryl Davis not an option?

    I picked Marina Klimova for her edges, lines, emotion, and the overall beauty of her skating.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    Regarding the rhumba choctaws, they really are so tricky and I don't feel they are necessarily reflective of overall technique, imo. It is funny because Usova had beautiful turnout so one might think she would have an easier time with that partcular step, but it is so difficult to place the blade right in time on the outside edge and get that backwards momentum. I wonder if we watched Klimova, Gritschuk, and Torville perform their respective choctaws in slow motion if we might sometimes see the same issue I identified with the Canton females, but I take your point about hiding it, gk_891. I've always felt that Usova's overall edge control and all-around technique was excellent.
    I find this discussion and the method by which today's pattern dances are judged very interesting. What DO you do when you have an ice dancer with superior overall basic skating, timing, and expression, but who does the most important step of the dance incorrectly? Does it negate the rest of the dance in its entirety? Should a couple who skates far apart with a small pattern place ahead because they got the key points right? I don't know. IIRC U&Z were good enough that they were part of the ISU instructional videos along with very young V&M, so there was something there that was considered textbook (I don't know if they demonstrated rhumba in that video so I'm speaking generally).

    I was annoyed at first with the concept of having levels in a pattern dance (same steps ought to equal same base value), but I'm seeing it now. By assigning the level, you reward the couple for doing the key points correctly; however, you still have GOE to judge the other general qualities that made a good CD. I'm not sure this is occurring in practice and there even seems to be confusion among fans. I have read a lot of comments that so-and-so got good levels on the YP, so how could their GOE be low, and vice versa?

    And on another totally unrelated note, wanted to mention a couple of excellent female ice dancers that never made it to the top because of injuries or partner issues: Anastasia Grebenkina, Emily Samuelson, Jamie Silverstein, Jana Kokhlova, and Nora Hoffman.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    By assigning the level, you reward the couple for doing the key points correctly; however, you still have GOE to judge the other general qualities that made a good CD. I'm not sure this is occurring in practice and there even seems to be confusion among fans. I have read a lot of comments that so-and-so got good levels on the YP, so how could their GOE be low, and vice versa?
    This was the case of Cappellini and Lanotte, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think they got level fours on both polka patterns throughout the season, but their GOE was always so low. Happened also with Virtue and Moir, they got the best levels out of the Canton teams on the polka, yet their GOE was low (by their standards). Then you see teams with level threes and a huge GOE, makes you wonder. I am still against assigning levels to the patterns for this very reason. If the GOE is going to end up determining the mark, just use GOE then.

  10. #50

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    I wouldn't have described the data quite that way.

    C&L hit 2 more key points over the season than D&W and V&M did. D&W and V&M hit exactly the same number of key points. All 3 teams had at least one international event where they hit 6 key points.


    V&M Skate Canada 3 kp
    V&M CoR 3 kp
    V&M GPF 5 kp
    V&M 4CCs 5 kp
    V&M Worlds 6 kp

    V&M Total 22 kp

    D&W Skate America 4 kp
    D&W NHK 3 kp
    D&W GPF 4 kp
    D&W 4CCs 6 kp
    D&W Worlds 5 kp

    D&W Total 22 kp

    C&L Skate Canada 4 kp
    C&L TEB 5 kp
    C&L GPF 6 kp
    C&L Euros 4 kp
    C&L Worlds 5 kp

    C&L total 24 kp

  11. #51
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    Sorry, I was referring to Worlds in VM's case. I knew C-L had success with their levels this season, but why the low GOE? Thanks for bringing those numbers!

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Sorry, I was referring to Worlds in VM's case. I knew C-L had success with their levels this season, but why the low GOE? Thanks for bringing those numbers!
    I think the GOE is because they skate small, although the pattern is correct it is not as big as other couples can produce. Anna's edges also are often not that deep.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Jayne Torvill. If she had her own category I think she would have more votes.
    I agree with that. I love Jayne's quality of skating.

    I voted for Marina. I love her originality, her edges and artistry.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRNgq4cQIU8
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  14. #54

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    I think K/P's Samba also shows off many turns and difficult steps Klimova was capable of doing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz_l3PkGl78

  15. #55
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    empress tessa

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think K/P's Samba also shows off many turns and difficult steps Klimova was capable of doing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz_l3PkGl78
    I agree, VIETgrlTerifa (and thank you for starting this thread as i am learning a lot from it). What I like most about this samba (cuz i really don't like the music and am not crazy about some of the choreo) is that they actually had the bounce action of the samba. The way they bend and straighten the knees--that is so key to samba. K&P were a very versatile team. So many teams tackled the samba rhythm last year in the SD but very few actually got it. Actually, i felt that the Latin dances on the whole were not well interpreted. The only top teams who really got it were V&M, C&L, and P&B, imo.

    Interesting points about the pattern dances. Missing a key point is very costly and the GOEs, which relect the quality of the pattern, don't really allow you to make up the difference in levels because the judges can only award integers ranging from -3 to +3 (and then that is converted with the scale of values). For example in the Yankee Polka, one could miss the right back outside edge of the closed choctaw on the first section and get dropped a level which translates to one less point than a level 4. They could still execute a strong overall pattern (deep edges, great amplitude, etc.) but even if they score a full GOE higher than the next closest team, that only translates to a 0.5 point advantage over that team, which still leaves them with a deficit of 0.5. They would have to be far superior in the pattern to make up that lost point (as they would need to be 2 full GOEs ahead of the next team to do so) since there is not much with which the judges can separate the teams in the GOEs for the pattern, so it makes missing a key point very costly. Does that make sense? I wish the scale of values allowed for 1.0 points per GOE for those patterns.

  17. #57
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    I dunno a lot of technique in ice dancing, but honoring the great ESTA I will say my all time favourite is Pasha!

  18. #58
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    If I were Natalia Bestemianova, I would have used conditioner and combed my hair. I also would have told Tarasova to lay off all the squat position choreography.

  19. #59
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    Bestemianova was my favorite Carmen before Virtue played her.

  20. #60
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    I wish I could vote for Tracy Wilson. Even though she wasn't that great of a pure dancer, she was such a good skater, and she and Rob McCall were perky and cute.

    1988 Olympics FD

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