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  1. #741

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    With VM all, what SC are doing is look like - we don't need you anymore, we got all medals from you, which you could to win. Look at French federation - they wasn't.happy with PB situation and said buy-buy to Camerlengo. They try to do best in politics for there best skaters.
    And SC focusing on team events (hate it, because some skaters, who even never were on podium at WCh, will have the same medal with VM) and on Chan. Yes, they never could win 3 medals.
    So they sold VM. So now Russia, France and USA will unite against Canada at OG. And VM even didn't have coach on there side.
    Tessa and Scott seem to be ok with all of this though or oblivious or naive, take your pick. They keep emphasizing in interviews that its them that's the problem essentially; all they say is we have to be better, we need to be perfect and we'll prevail. I don't think things are that black and white anymore, it's too gray now.

    Lola was it even confirmed they were gonna be on that show? I remember there being some confusion about it.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  2. #742

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Tessa and Scott seem to be ok with all of this though or oblivious or naive, take your pick. They keep emphasizing in interviews that its them that's the problem essentially; all they say is we have to be better, we need to be perfect and we'll prevail. I don't think things are that black and white anymore, it's too gray now.

    Lola was it even confirmed they were gonna be on that show? I remember there being some confusion about it.
    Yes, they need to take few lessons from PB. They alwayse sure there programs are the best, they are the best, there competitiors are overated (and there fans agree with them too).

    I thought they was at that show. But we didnt see nothing, so maybe they wasnt.

  3. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Yes, they need to take few lessons from PB. They alwayse sure there programs are the best, they are the best, there competitiors are overated (and there fans agree with them too).

    I thought they was at that show. But we didnt see nothing, so maybe they wasnt.
    But unlike P/B, V/M will be accused of bad sportmanship if they do that.

  4. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    But unlike P/B, V/M will be accused of bad sportmanship if they do that.
    I've been one of those people who have been frustrated over V&M not being proactive to defend themselves and counteract the media onslaught against them but parapluies has a point. We've seen in the past what happens when Tessa and Scott (especially Scott) stand up for themselves by questioning the marks or even just talking up their many strong points. They/he are poor sports, arrogant, whiny....and those aren't the worse things people have said. Even Tessa's injury is question.

    V&M just seem to be in a no win situation.

    Frankly I can't really fault P&B for doing what they are doing. The French federation unlike the Canadian federation, realizes what needs to be done to protect and stand up for their top dance team and they are doing it. I only wish Skate Canada had been doing the same.

    From time to time I wonder if Tessa's condition in Vancouver and at the time V&M's not being sure they were going to stay in for another four years set the tone for how Skate Canada promoted them. I'm not blaming Tessa and Scott at all and as soon as they made it clear their intentions to stay for Sochi, Skate Canada should have been doing for them what USFS has been doing for D&W and what it appears the French federation is attempting to do with P&B.

  5. #745

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    Today, before OG season SC even didn't have the head of FS federation. Why they need to change all top managers of Federation now? And if SC couldn't stay for VM at home WCh, with Carmen, what could they do in Sochi?
    They think VM are not good role models for SC? Only W-P deserve all there support.
    Last edited by pani; 05-21-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  6. #746
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    I don't think Skate Canada is promoting their ice dancers much? I mean, I don't see them doing it for Weaver and Poje either, Pani. But W-P are more active on the social media, which is okay by me. They like Twitter, they interact with the Twitter world more, they are comfortable with that, that is all. Skate Canada is all about Chan and the team event at the moment.

  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Lola was it even confirmed they were gonna be on that show? I remember there being some confusion about it.
    I checked on the tuesday they were supposed to go and they were still listed as guest alongside a comedian as guest panelist, he has yet not been on there as well. Unfortunately, I forgot to check the other guest for the week so I could put it into a weekly context.

    My last effort to spread some optimism:

    Firstly, whats next? All the federation of the world join together to bring Tessa and Scott down? I hope they don't get into a power struggle over who should win which medal. I honestly think we are all over-dramatizing everything a bit and should calm down. I don't say everything is perfect and peachy for Tessa and Scott, by far not. Everytime I see the double-standard with which they are scored, I get really angry and want to throw things at the judges or Skate Canada, but it will not help.

    Secondly, my supervisor for my B.A. thesis always said to me when I was complaining about my workload "Suck it up! You are not here to be pampered." It was the well-needed reality check! Anyway, do you think Tessa and Scott are sitting at Canton whining and throwing hockey sticks and pucks around? No, they face the challenge and try the best they can, even it might not pay off. But as far as I am concerned, giving up and whining is not an option for them.

    Lastly, my history teacher used to quote a lot. This one by Churchill stayed with me: "If you are going through hell and everyone is trying to talk you down, just keep on walking and make sure someone that cares is at your side." I think some people still believe in them. For instance, Jennifer Swan who will do their part to give them a hell of a FD and seems incredible loyal to them. Jean-Marc Generaux who seemed to have given them so much more than just a great SD. Their communities and families who will always love, support and have faith in them. In the end, they will always have each other, even it means we against the world.

    One more think: never ever underestimate the will power, determination, courage, heart and hard work of a human being. It can become the source of incredible strength and that is something I learned from myself!

    And the really last one: When Marina is not believing in them, why does she let them do Carmen with all its difficulty? She seems to me like an person who loves to have control over everything. Why does she give them every season these programs with new elements that challenge themselves and allow them to grow on a technical as well as artistic level? May be because she cares! (she is no angel, I know, but to say she does not care is a little too easy!)
    Last edited by lola10; 05-21-2013 at 08:05 PM.

  8. #748

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    Quote Originally Posted by lola10 View Post
    Why does she give them every season these programs with new elements that challenge themselves and allow them to grow on a technical as well as artistic level? May be because she cares! (she is no angel, I know, but to say she does not care is a little too easy!)
    Because she knew it will be difficult to skate it clean and this will bring her daugheter gold at WCh?
    I cant see Marina did Carmen choreo.
    And if she told to everyone in Nice how she upset with DW lose, how VM could not heard this? And what did she said after this WCH? I dont care. Lets face the truth - she was pushing VM, when Tessa was her sons GF. So now 1 chance for VM is Maia will start dating with Fedor
    And they only persons, who let tp her to do all this - its VM. For me it will be interesting< how she will work with DW without VM at the same ice.

  9. #749
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    I regret that I asked! For you, she is the incarnation of all evil and no matter what, you will always hate her. You don't even give her the benefit of the doubt or try to not see everything in black and white.

  10. #750

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    Quote Originally Posted by lola10 View Post
    I regret that I asked! For you, she is the incarnation of all evil and no matter what, you will always hate her. You don't even give her the benefit of the doubt or try to not see everything in black and white.
    Yes, we have different opinions. For you Marina is a angel, who try all her best for her skaters.
    My opinion based on what her skaters show on ice. I remember, what programs had BA, when Tanith stop dating with Fedor.
    I know she did "Fanny Face" choreo and was unhappy, when T-S won WCh gold with this FD.
    I know, she did "Carmen" for T-S but they must to change all choreo and concept. I think if her choreo was good, why they need to do this?
    She was responsible for what happened with Zhuck and Shpilband.
    So yes, i see her black side. And i know other coaches never start talking how they upset, when there team won gold at WCh, i simply couldnt imaging this.
    An i know people usually didnt try to change something just because they afraid to do this.
    And isnt coaches responsible for Tessas injury?

    So OK, maybe some fans and VM waiting, when Zoueva choose them to give them her best work. But i dont want to do this, because there are so many great choreografhers, who is much better, then Marina. Just IMHO.

  11. #751

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    I can see both your point of views. And I really appreciate your post Lola cuz I realize things have been gloomy in here for awhile and it can't hurt to infuse some optimism in here. I don't blame Marina for everything (she probably wouldn't even be number 5 on my list of who to blame if I had a list) and I do think she loves them, but she probably loves her pride more. And because she has two top teams it mostly doesn't matter to her which one comes out on top. In addition she has made some very questionable comments re Tessa and Scott; especially in the 11-12 season and her reaction at Worlds that year. Anyways I just don't trust her because I don't think she has their best interests at heart anymore. None of this matters, we're all just speculating from what we observe from the outside; the only opinion that counts is Tessa and Scott's and they don't have a problem with it.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  12. #752

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    Yes, its just speculations. And at the end its no matter I am trust.her or no, I like her or no. Will see who was right at the end of the day. You know, I will be happy to be wrong, because in this case TS become happy :-)
    But I never were Canton fan, or Zoueva, Shpilband fan, but just VM fan.

  13. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    But I never were Canton fan, or Zoueva, Shpilband fan, but just VM fan.
    Ditto, I generally find her choreography dull and uninspiring, and felt that Igor was all about churning out teams who could do level 4 twizzles but who lacked finesse. That V&M could make me a fan in spite of that is a testament to their talent.

  14. #754
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    I think that asking Skate Canada to promote any of their skaters as 'the best' will be the death knell for their careers. FS fans seem to save their worst vitriol for Canadians - I mean just read the threads on Chan and Osmond. And for what it's worth, if what has been said here about the US federation's pushing of DW to the detriment of VM is true, than it's poor sportsmanship and the same old nonsense from the past rearing it's ugly head.

  15. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Yes, we have different opinions. For you Marina is a angel, who try all her best for her skaters.
    My opinion based on what her skaters show on ice. I remember, what programs had BA, when Tanith stop dating with Fedor.
    I know she did "Fanny Face" choreo and was unhappy, when T-S won WCh gold with this FD.
    I know, she did "Carmen" for T-S but they must to change all choreo and concept. I think if her choreo was good, why they need to do this?
    She was responsible for what happened with Zhuck and Shpilband.
    So yes, i see her black side. And i know other coaches never start talking how they upset, when there team won gold at WCh, i simply couldnt imaging this.
    An i know people usually didnt try to change something just because they afraid to do this.
    And isnt coaches responsible for Tessas injury?

    So OK, maybe some fans and VM waiting, when Zoueva choose them to give them her best work. But i dont want to do this, because there are so many great choreografhers, who is much better, then Marina. Just IMHO.
    Lets just hope Marina doesn't give them Ave Maria or Requiem.

  16. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    I just feel V/M are getting lost in all of this. I can see the American, Russian and now French federations going after them next season. And I'm sorry to say, but I feel SC just cares about Chan's chances of winning next season.
    And what'll end up happening is that neither will win.

  17. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Lets just hope Marina doesn't give them Ave Maria or Requiem.
    Somehow, I doubt we are going to see either! She could never give them one of these or somethinge similar.

    Off topic (again): I asked a friend who works at a TV station about taping airing. She said it is different for every show obivioulsy. Sometimes it is life (mostly the Breakfast shows are life interviews), Debating shows are mostly taped at the same day because of the topics that are discussed. And entertainment shows with celebrities mostly depend on the schedule of the person. They once had Tom Cruise in the studio to promote his new film. The interview was taped three monthe before it was aired because he happened to film some sense in Germany and had some time, but the film was coming much later. It is aired when it makes the most sense, in Tessa and Scott case that could be before the season starts.

  18. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    I can see both your point of views. And I really appreciate your post Lola cuz I realize things have been gloomy in here for awhile and it can't hurt to infuse some optimism in here. I don't blame Marina for everything (she probably wouldn't even be number 5 on my list of who to blame if I had a list) and I do think she loves them, but she probably loves her pride more. And because she has two top teams it mostly doesn't matter to her which one comes out on top. In addition she has made some very questionable comments re Tessa and Scott; especially in the 11-12 season and her reaction at Worlds that year. Anyways I just don't trust her because I don't think she has their best interests at heart anymore. None of this matters, we're all just speculating from what we observe from the outside; the only opinion that counts is Tessa and Scott's and they don't have a problem with it.
    This.

    It's not the programs and the training under Marina that I question. It's what happens once the season has actually begun. We've talked about this before that in icedance it isn't just about the programs and the actual skating it's all the politicking or promoting by the federations and coaches that also takes place off ice. Marina may have allowed Tessa and Scott to work with outside choreographers to really stretch themselves and explore new ideas but what good is that when she publicly makes comments that put V&M in a negative light. And I keep saying that Marina has been in the sport long enough to know how things work and she isn't naive or stupid. Especially in icedance revealing a weakness whether it's an injury or something else can be counted against teams.

    While some of our posts can come across as negative and being real downers, I don't think it's being defeatist but more like being realistic. Watching everything that has happened in the past two seasons in particular I just can't ignore those things. Maybe it's perception but V&M have to work twice as hard and be twice as good to get the scores. I do think that any skater has to share the responsibility for where their careers end up but there are outside things at work as well. I don't think it's all on Tessa and Scott when it comes to the season they had.

    I suppose now that V&M know what the judges are rewarding and if they once more choose to go the route of filling their programs with more challenging content that takes the entire season to gel then I suppose I can say they have to take most of the blame as they would have made a choice to be artists and push themselves over a shot at winning the gold medal.

    In the end Shayii is right. No matter what we think and how Marina's behavior comes across, Tessa and Scott clearly still believe in her.

  19. #759

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    I do think that any skater has to share the responsibility for where their careers end up but there are outside things at work as well. I don't think it's all on Tessa and Scott when it comes to the season they had.
    I agree with you. It differenct aspects skaters are responsibil for there careers too. All top skaters are adults, so...
    Now Camerlengo is angry on Pechalat. OK. But why Pechalat must care about this, if she have maybe last chance to win medal at OG?
    All this - Marina gave to us so many different things we couldnt left her, sound not adults. Or - wait, she will be upset and could do something bad for us.
    I agree - our thought sound realisics. And we all will be happy to be wrong, i think. And we all love, what VM are doing on ice. But what could we do?
    Maybe i must to tell something to Zoueva in Nice, in Moscow, Sochi (joking).
    Now we have long summer ahead of us. Time for life without FS

  20. #760
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    Yup time for life without FS and that is precisely what I will be doing for the next little while.
    Pani May 2 4 weekend is important for us as its the first weekend of good weather in Ontario so we can garden. But I was away so my garden is full of weeds and lots of work there.
    Then I think as July comes in I will probably start to watch all the old T&S videos to get me into the mood for the season.
    I will also probably go for the Thornhill ice dance show. I think thats where they debuted their program before the last olys and hope they go there ( 5 minutes drive from home) for the sake of tradition....

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