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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    Wasn't this right after G&P left Dubova for Linichuk?
    Yes, in 92 Dubova booted Grishuk out of her skating camp and paired Platov up with Tatiana Navka. But after about 3 months, he left to skate with Grishuk again because Dubova was spending all of her time with U/Z and he didn't want to wait until 98 for an Olympic gold medal. So G/P went back to Grishuk's first coach, Linichuk who had coached her and Alexander Chickov to the 1988 junior world title. Interestingly, Platov and his former partner Elena Krikanova were 3 time junior world champions in 84, 85, and 86. Grishuk & Chickov came onto the junior scene in 87 I think.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    That's probably my biggest problem with Linichuk's choreography as she tends to emphasize parts or segments rather than the whole.
    Very true, with rare exceptions like DenSta in 2007.

  3. #63

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    I wish Oksana Grishuk wore the red dress she wore at Europeans. It matched Platov's outfit much better and I think it made her look a lot better while skating that program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I wish Oksana Grishuk wore the red dress she wore at Europeans. It matched Platov's outfit much better and I think it made her look a lot better while skating that program.
    She probably wanted to be sexy for the Olympics with her midriff bared.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    IMO, their 1993 programs and skating were far more mature.
    Yes but her hairstyle and overall appearance was still fairly young looking. With her new hair color, hair style, more provacative and daring costumes, and overall mannerism she seemed much more of a women with a take me seriously vibe in 94.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Yes but her hairstyle and overall appearance was still fairly young looking. With her new hair color, hair style, more provacative and daring costumes, and overall mannerism she seemed much more of a women with a take me seriously vibe in 94.
    True. I thought she improved her 'look' that year. Perhaps that made her more 'appealing' to the judges.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Yes, in 92 Dubova booted Grishuk out of her skating camp and paired Platov up with Tatiana Navka. But after about 3 months, he left to skate with Grishuk again because Dubova was spending all of her time with U/Z and he didn't want to wait until 98 for an Olympic gold medal. So G/P went back to Grishuk's first coach, Linichuk who had coached her and Alexander Chickov to the 1988 junior world title. Interestingly, Platov and his former partner Elena Krikanova were 3 time junior world champions in 84, 85, and 86. Grishuk & Chickov came onto the junior scene in 87 I think.
    Poor Dubova, she hedged her best with U&Z both over K&P (starting from about 1990 onwards), eventually driving K&P away, and then again over G&P, and U&Z were unable twice to produce an Oly Gold medal for her, while G&P and K&P both took Oly Gold while not being coached by her. K&P also were unable to win an Oly Gold while being coached by her, despite many thinking they were the best team in 88, and saw themselves be challenged and dethroned by the Duchensays under her watch (while her beloved U&Z were unable to beat the Duchensays either from even a clear winning position at the 91 Worlds, and despite everything going against them fell again behind K&P too), but K&P went right back to the top once they ditched her for her hated rival Tarasova. That might explain by the time she was coaching B&K she seemed increasingly bitter and jaded, whining endlessly how they were so much better than G&P and Krylova & Ovsiannikov and that there was huge cheating if they didnt win every event. She had a HUGE chip on her shoulder by then. Tarasova mocking her and B&Ks programs she designed for them couldnt have helped.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Poor Dubova, she hedged her best with U&Z both over K&P (starting from about 1990 onwards), eventually driving K&P away, and then again over G&P, and U&Z were unable twice to produce an Oly Gold medal for her, while G&P and K&P both took Oly Gold while not being coached by her. K&P also were unable to win an Oly Gold while being coached by her, despite many thinking they were the best team in 88, and saw themselves be challenged and dethroned by the Duchensays under her watch (while her beloved U&Z were unable to beat the Duchensays either from even a clear winning position at the 91 Worlds, and despite everything going against them fell again behind K&P too), but K&P went right back to the top once they ditched her for her hated rival Tarasova. That might explain by the time she was coaching B&K she seemed increasingly bitter and jaded, whining endlessly how they were so much better than G&P and Krylova & Ovsiannikov and that there was huge cheating if they didnt win every event. She had a HUGE chip on her shoulder by then. Tarasova mocking her and B&Ks programs she designed for them couldnt have helped.
    Not only that but in 1994 when Dubova found out about the affair between Zhulin and Navka, she sent Navka and her partner Samuel Gezalian (a fast rising up and coming team) back to Russia in order to avoid a scandal. After placing a promising 5th at the 94 Worlds (I had them 4th in my books), Navka & Gezalian's skating really went downhill after being sent back to Russia and they tumbled down the rankings. They soon broke up afterwards and Navka drifted away from Dubova. And then she became Olympic champion in 2006 under a different coach!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Not only that but in 1994 when Dubova found out about the affair between Zhulin and Navka, she sent Navka and her partner Samuel Gezalian (a fast rising up and coming team) back to Russia in order to avoid a scandal. After placing a promising 5th at the 94 Worlds (I had them 4th in my books), Navka & Gezalian's skating really went downhill after being sent back to Russia and they tumbled down the rankings. They soon broke up afterwards and Navka drifted away from Dubova. And then she became Olympic champion in 2006 under a different coach!
    LOL I didnt know about that part. No wonder she was so jaded and cranky by 98. I dont think I have ever seen a more sour coach as to what she had become by Nagano, and I used to like her to. To add more insult to injury, Bourne & Kraatz even climbed back up after continously being passed by new teams under her, and won their World gold and silver (albeit after some retirements) under Tarasova, after they left her. That was pretty much the last anyone ever heard of her, other than playing a minor part of the A&P coaching team in 2002 (a team she dissed endlessly when they were B&K rivals, proving her a hypocrite), and coaching the Israelis to their all time controversial World medal in 2002.

  10. #70

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    What's the inside scoop between Tarasova and Dubova?

    I always felt bad for Dubova because she developed Klimova/Ponomarenko, Usova/Zhulin, and Grishuk/Platov only to have K/P and G/P win gold with a last minute coaching switch on top of having K/P consistently lose to Tarasova's technically inferior Bestemianova/Bukin for four years straight despite some close calls (5/4 split at 1986 Worlds and K/P winning the OSP in 1987 Worlds). Tarasova reaped the rewards for K/P while Linichuk got to collect gold in 1994 and then Tarasova again got to take credit for G/P in 1998. I heard that it was actually Linichuk who choreographed G/P's 1997 FD to The Feeling Begins (IMO, G/P's best FD) but people gave Tarasova all the credit for re-stylizing them. Come to think of it, Tarasova also got credit for restylzing K/P for 1992 too, even though they already begun doing that in 1991 under Dubova's watch.

    I always felt that Tarasova was sort of overrated because she always had good timing when she'd coach her skaters to gold after other people did all the hard work. Although, Shizuka left her right before Torino and Bourne/Kraatz really did improve after leaving Dubova, which was weird considering people usually think Dubova is the one who teaches the better dance technique of the two.

    I loved all the Nagano commentary about the three divas during the dance event: Tarasova, Dubova, and Linichuk. I kind of wish we'd see something like that again. Maybe Sochi will have Igor v. Marina spilling out bitter antidotes about one another.

  11. #71
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    I remember Platov once said that Dubova was a phenomenal technical coach, much more so than either Linichuk or Tarasova. It's too bad she couldn't really help B&K with that. Her work had started to become very disappointing mid-90s onwards.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    What's the inside scoop between Tarasova and Dubova?

    I always felt bad for Dubova because she developed Klimova/Ponomarenko, Usova/Zhulin, and Grishuk/Platov only to have K/P and G/P win gold with a last minute coaching switch on top of having K/P consistently lose to Tarasova's technically inferior Bestemianova/Bukin for four years straight despite some close calls (5/4 split at 1986 Worlds and K/P winning the OSP in 1987 Worlds). Tarasova reaped the rewards for K/P while Linichuk got to collect gold in 1994 and then Tarasova again got to take credit for G/P in 1998. I heard that it was actually Linichuk who choreographed G/P's 1997 FD to The Feeling Begins (IMO, G/P's best FD) but people gave Tarasova all the credit for re-stylizing them. Come to think of it, Tarasova also got credit for restylzing K/P for 1992 too, even though they already begun doing that in 1991 under Dubova's watch.

    I always felt that Tarasova was sort of overrated because she always had good timing when she'd coach her skaters to gold after other people did all the hard work. Although, Shizuka left her right before Torino and Bourne/Kraatz really did improve after leaving Dubova, which was weird considering people usually think Dubova is the one who teaches the better dance technique of the two.

    I loved all the Nagano commentary about the three divas during the dance event: Tarasova, Dubova, and Linichuk. I kind of wish we'd see something like that again. Maybe Sochi will have Igor v. Marina spilling out bitter antidotes about one another.
    G/P denied that Linichuk choreographed The Feeling Begins although Linichuk tried to take credit for it. The story I heard (and who knows what's true) is that she really wanted to get rid of them after 95-96 because she wanted to lead K/O to gold. She talked about leading them to gold as early as 95. And after the 96 Worlds, she basically left them on their own. When asked why Linichuk would do such a terrible thing, her old coach Elena Chaikovskaya (who ironically became G/P's advisor in 97 and 98) said that G/P could be 10 time world and Olympic champion and it wouldn't matter because they were a team put together by another trainer (Dubova). I had also once read that at the 97 European, the Russian skating federation had released some sort of statement that Linichuk had done everything possible to push G/P into the professional ranks and basically left them in the cold. But like I said, I'm not 100 percent sure as to what's true and not true.

  13. #73
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    I do feel badly for her too. However I get the impression she was never very good politiking for her teams. The 86 Worlds which was so close between K&P and B&B, and the 91 Worlds where U&Z were so close to winning but the inferior Duchensays ended up coming from behind to win over both U&Z and K&P, are cases her team would have won had she been any better at behind the scenes things. They also could have been huge momentum changers with K&P leading into 88 and U&Z leading into 92 become the political favorites to win suddenly. Then while I dont neccessarily think they deserved to, I am pretty sure she could have had U&Z as reigning World Champs winning the very close European and World events if she were any better at politiking too.

    Most of all though she also made a huge mistake in sending away or alienating every girl who was either a threat to Maya Usova or who ever slept with renowned playboy Alexander Zhulin. She really should have either sent them away or threatened to send them away if he continued to cause anymore problems within the camp, but instead stuck with them through thick and thin, and lost out on alot as a result.

    I agree her work became very dissapointing in the second half of the 90s, and I think it is because she was already feeling dejected due to all the things discussed on this page. She probably was already losing heart by that point.

  14. #74

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    Wow. Is it wrong to miss all that drama?

    If NBC can give a fluff piece and incessant commentary regarding Igor v. Marina, then we can have a really interesting Olympics. Of course, if we throw Krylova into the mix and if one of the three Marina teams leave for Igor, that'll just make it even better. Too bad the three teams seem content and Krylova doesn't seem as dramatic as her on-ice persona.

  15. #75
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    I do miss the days of the Tarasova vs Dubova vs Linichuk wars. Only Linichuk is still a somewhat prominent coach today, but even she isnt that much a power in the skating World anymore. Tarasova is mostly a commentator, Russian team advisor, etc...Dont even know what Dubova does now.

  16. #76

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    Speaking of Elena Chaikovskaya, I wonder if it's true that Marina Zoueva once spit in her face when Zoueva was being coached by her. I remember reading that at one of the Gordeeva/Grinkov threads a long time ago.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I do miss the days of the Tarasova vs Dubova vs Linichuk wars. Only Linichuk is still a somewhat prominent coach today, but even she isnt that much a power in the skating World anymore. Tarasova is mostly a commentator, Russian team advisor, etc...Dont even know what Dubova does now.
    I think Dubova is retired. If you like drama, I once read that was some sort of confrontation between her and Grishuk. What I had read on another message board years ago was that she blamed Grishuk for `luring`Platov away from her camp and there was a physical confrontation of sorts. But again, who knows if that`s actually true.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Speaking of Elena Chaikovskaya, I wonder if it's true that Marina Zoueva once spit in her face when Zoueva was being coached by her. I remember reading that at one of the Gordeeva/Grinkov threads a long time ago.
    I`ve never heard of that! Interesting. I think she also coach Drobriazko & Vanagas for a few years. Not sure what she is doing now.

  19. #79
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    Another interesting tidbit I had once read was that Linichuk was once coached by a young Dubova back in the late 70s. But she left her to study under Chaikovskaya. Funny how they're all so intertwined in many ways.
    Last edited by gk_891; 04-29-2013 at 05:05 AM.

  20. #80

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    Very interesting. I wonder what Dubova truly felt when she kept saying B/K were robbed in 1998. I mean the FD is arguable (though I think A/P's FD was way better), but that OD...I mean did she really think she was fooling anybody with that OD (other than the audience and TV viewers who didn't know much about ice dance but fell for that poor North Americans being robbed by the Russians storyline)?

    I did like that one Nagano fluff where they interviewed her and B/K and talked about how the Golden Waltz had a special place in her heart since she and K/P invented it.

    I know Dubova favored Usova/Zhulin over Klimova/Ponomarenko as mentioned upthread, but I wonder what REALLY happened to push K/P out and why Dubova was apparently vocal about not believing that K/P were innocent when she first failed that drug test. That's a serious thing for a coach to not back up their team on that issue. Remember that Albertville fluff when she called K/P "lazy" which was odd to me because K/P seemed to have the most difficult dances and best unison of all the teams at the time, and you don't do that by being lazy.

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