View Poll Results: Butyrskaya vs Suguri- who was the better skater

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  • Butyrskaya

    116 75.32%
  • Suguri

    38 24.68%
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  1. #1
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    Suguri vs Butyrskaya- who was the better skater

    These are my 2 favorite skaters ever even though unfortunately the judges thought of both as second rate and only bit contenders. Medals and achievements aside which was the better skater of the two.

  2. #2
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    Bute easily gets my vote. She was a much better skater than given credited for even though I was never a huge fan myself.

  3. #3

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    Such different skaters.

    Tall-short
    Bold-gentle
    3Lp-No 3Lp
    Hard landings-soft knees
    Terrible layback-lovely layback

    Similar results at the Olympics.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Such different skaters.

    Tall-short
    Bold-gentle
    3Lp-No 3Lp
    Hard landings-soft knees
    Terrible layback-lovely layback

    Similar results at the Olympics.
    They have totally different strengths and weaknesses. There are places Maria is much better and places Suguri was much better. Suguri was more consistent, and had fewer meltdownws, but Butyrskaya could go really clean and perfect those rare times she was really on while Suguri was consistent in always making 1 or 2 mistakes but never skating her best or perfectly clean, which is why she has a World title and 3 European titles, and Suguri no big titles.

  5. #5
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    I found Maria to be the better performer artistically, so I voted for her. Also, I love her beautiful true outside edge lutz.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    They have totally different strengths and weaknesses. There are places Maria is much better and places Suguri was much better. Suguri was more consistent, and had fewer meltdownws, but Butyrskaya could go really clean and perfect those rare times she was really on while Suguri was consistent in always making 1 or 2 mistakes but never skating her best or perfectly clean, which is why she has a World title and 3 European titles, and Suguri no big titles.
    Euro titles should not count against Fumie.

  7. #7
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    ...Wasn't there a poll exactly like this one not so long ago?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Euro titles should not count against Fumie.
    Or in any event Suguri also had 3 4CCs title and a GPF title.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Euro titles should not count against Fumie.
    Probably true, but on the other hand there is no chance Fumie would have won 3 European titles. Butyrskaya won those 3 European titles in the Slutskaya (in Europe anyway) era, and Suguri has only beaten Slutskaya once in her career, and that was the 2004 Worlds where Slutskaya was heavily ill and came 8th to Suguri's 7th.

    As for comparing 4CCs titles to Europeans, the 4CC fields in those days were far below the European fields. The only skater who would finish top 7 at the upcoming Worlds who Suguri beat for any of her 4CC titles was Nikidinov in 2001.

    Suguri did win the Grand Prix final, but Maria has many more grand prix wins, and finished top 4 at every Grand Prix final from 1997-2002. Suguri most years didnt even qualify for it, actually wasnt 2004 her only appearance in the event. Maria in addition to actually winning a Worlds in completely dominant fashion, while Suguri never came close to winning one, was also more of a threat to win Worlds in general; she was a contender to win Worlds for sure in 1999, 2000, and arguably 2001, while Suguri never was. She was also a legitimate threat to medal at the 98 Olympics, and was .1 from doing it skating about 55% of her best, and arguably a threat in 2002 as well, while Suguri at even 100% probably wasnt medalling in any Olympics, even the 2006 splatfest.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 04-16-2013 at 05:59 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Suguri did win the Grand Prix final, but Maria has many more grand prix wins, and finished top 4 at every Grand Prix final from 1997-2002. Suguri most years didnt even qualify for it, actually wasnt 2004 her only appearance in the event.
    Suguri competed in the Grand Prix Final as late as December 2006 (plcing fourth), but the 2003-4 gold was her only GPF medal. ETA: She placed fifth at the 1998-9 GPF and sixth in the 2002-3 final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Suguri competed in the Grand Prix Final as late as December 2006, but the 2003-4 gold was her only GPF medal.
    Thanks, were those the only 2 years she qualified for it? I just checked her bio and I guess she was at the 2003 edition too, so she qualified for 3 in her career. Butyrskaya qualified for all 7 that were held during her career, and managed a 2nd, two 3rds, three 4ths, but never managed to win it. That is pretty much the only edge Suguri's career has over Butyskaya although the OP specified skating ability as opposed to careers.

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    I loved both of them, but Suguri was better skater.

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    Artistically and musically I think Maria was better. She had lots of musicality and created her own style and image on the ice. The presence of Maria (the woman) was evident against the "little girls" in Nagano and so on
    Skating skills-wise there is no colour, IMHO. Suguri is the typical japanese skater with great speed, soft edges, very good ice coverage and a fluid stroking. She had great jumping technique (apart from flutzing) and great rotation speed in the spins
    Maria was more statuesque and Fumie was more fluid. I enjoyed Maria much more when on, because I felt she was an artist

  14. #14
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    Maria no contest. Much better artist, better jumper who did more technical difficulty. Many reasons Maria is better:

    -Maria has won a World title. Suguri did not.
    -Suguri has never beaten Michelle Kwan which for a top skater to not beat the best skater of their era atleast once is really weak.
    -Maria has much more success in the regular season.
    -Maria was a top skater for longer.
    -Maria was a top skater until the end of her career, while Suguri floundered after she was 25.
    -Maria had chances to win even more titles and medals than she won. Suguri maxed out her potential which was never that great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I loved both of them, but Suguri was better skater.
    I agree.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  16. #16
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    Butyrskaya was the better skater since she won the Figure Skating World Championships in Helsinki. 'nuff said.


    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Such different skaters.

    Tall-short
    Bold-gentle
    3Lp-No 3Lp
    Hard landings-soft knees
    Terrible layback-lovely layback

    Similar results at the Olympics.

    Both skaters had a good to average layback. The difference in that element really wasn't big.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    Both skaters had a good to average layback. The difference in that element really wasn't big.
    I disagree. Maria's layback was horrible. No bend or stretch in the back (it was practically a neck-back spin), plus a bad leg position.

    Fumie's leg position wasn't good either, but she always had better bend in her back and good speed. She even attained a lovely turned-out foot position during the 2001-2002 season. I don't know why she never kept it after that, because it really improved her body-line in the spin.

    Ultimately, I think Fumie was the better skater.

    Maria was the better performer, no doubt, but in terms of skating skills--edges, flow, speed, control, etc.--I think Fumie clearly comes out on top.

    Maria's skating rarely ever looked smooth or easy. Everything always looked so labored, be it her jump take-offs and/or landings, her poorly stretched spirals and spins, or her stiff arms on her crossovers...nothing about her skating looked like skating. IMO skating itself connotes ease of movement, fluidity, that effortless glide over the ice. The only effortless maneuver I can recall from Maria was her triple loop--and even then her landings were always so hit and miss on it.

    Granted, Fumie had poor stretch as well, but her movement over the ice always looked very fluid. She was a comfortable skater to watch. An intriguing performer/artist to watch? Maybe not.

    That I'm willing to concede to Maria. She definitely had presence and charisma in spades compared to Fumie. But skating in and of itself, I don't think so.

    Just my .2 cents.

  18. #18

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    This is silly. Circa 2002 Fumie's layback was much better than Maria's.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bQtL4T5hrE

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBZ View Post
    I disagree. Maria's layback was horrible. No bend or stretch in the back (it was practically a neck-back spin), plus a bad leg position.

    Fumie's leg position wasn't good either, but she always had better bend in her back and good speed. She even attained a lovely turned-out foot position during the 2001-2002 season. I don't know why she never kept it after that, because it really improved her body-line in the spin.

    The most important thing in the layback is the bend of the back...and Maria's and Fumie's were very similar in that regard (good but not great that is). Both laybacks often lacked extension. Speed-wise Fumie was maybe a bit better, Maria maybe had slighly better arm positions. Both skaters did not have the classical turn-out of the free leg which is not a requirement for a good layback anyway.

    Maria's layback wasn't by any means "horrible".

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    The most important thing in the layback is the bend of the back...and Maria's and Fumie's were very similar in that regard (good but not great that is)
    Maria's Layback 1

    Maria's Layback 2

    Vs

    Fumie's Layback 1

    Fumie's Layback 2

    Honestly, I don't know how one can compare their laybacks objectively and see them as similar.

    Of course, Fumie's layback was not great by any stretch of the imagination (some might argue it wasn't even good), but it looks pretty obvious to me that, on average, Fumie was able to attain better speed, line and back-bend in her laybacks in comparison.

    Maria barely attains any back-bend in her layback (it almost looks like she's spinning upright), there's no stretch or body-line in her position, and her speed is pretty average. Aren't these all qualities that make up a good, aesthetically pleasing layback spin when done well? If so, I think Maria's fails on all criteria, which is why I consider it a horrible spin.

    But to each his own, I suppose. I'm no spin expert, but the discrepancy in quality between the two looks clear-cut at least to my eye.

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